Ep.2: Crafting a Career with Character and Expertise w/ Dontae Hodge

• Transcript

  [00:00:00] Dontae Hodge: Every pivot point and every opportunity that I listed in my story started with a relationship. At Treesound, I built a relationship with that person. They saw me working, they put me on a session. Because of the relationship, they trusted me saying, yes, I can work Pro Tools. They never saw me work Pro Tools.

  [00:00:15] Dontae Hodge: They came from me having a relationship with the owner of the studio, with the director of production. 

  [00:00:20] Sidney Evans: Tune in. As we give flowers to black men and women making waves in the audio industry. I'm your host, Sidney Evans, and this is beyond the threshold.

  [00:00:42] Sidney Evans: Welcome ladies and gentlemen to beyond the threshold. I'm your host, Sidney Evans and award winning audio editor and producer. For those of you who don't know, this show is dedicated to interviewing black men and women working in the audio industry while highlighting the lessons and experiences it takes to achieve success in the field.

  [00:01:02] Sidney Evans: We are back for another episode. Our first conversation with the guests previously was with Ashley Hobbs. We had a great interview, a lot of great gems and, and lessons to be learned. So I hope you all go back and check that out as well as the podcast teaser and episode zero, which kind of tells my story and what led to me starting the podcast, but I'm not going to bore you with details of things in the past.

  [00:01:30] Sidney Evans: We're going to focus on the present today have a former colleague of mine. Who unfortunately I didn't get to know as well as I would have liked at the time, but we're gonna get into all the nitty gritty of it today in this conversation. So to give you a bit of background on him, he is a multi award winning audio engineer whose expertise on the music side includes music production, composition, and classical piano.

  [00:01:56] Sidney Evans: His experience also encompasses additional audio disciplines, including audio books, voiceovers, Podcast, live sound and film. He has used his talents to serve an illustrious clientele, including Stacey Abrams, Coco Jones, Martin Luther King, the third Coca Cola ambassador, Andrew Young, Kevin Hart Mase amongst others, but without further ado, I would like to introduce Dante Hodge, Mr.

  [00:02:22] Sidney Evans: Press play himself. Welcome to the show, brother. How are you? 

  [00:02:26] Dontae Hodge: Thank you. Thank you. I'm well, man. I'm thankful to be here. Thank you for the invite. I'm so happy that you're doing this because I feel like enough people in the industry who are actually doing the thing, they don't do enough of the actual thing and just showcasing what we do, talking about the people doing it.

  [00:02:43] Dontae Hodge: So when you told me about this, I was first of all, thankful and grateful that you thought of me, but also happy that you're doing this. So proud of you, man. Happy to be here. And thank you for the introduction. 

  [00:02:53] Sidney Evans: Yes, sir. Appreciate it. Yeah. This platform is something that I wish that would have been out there when I got first started, obviously, this is more geared towards black people working in the field, but from the field in general, we're so focused on like the technical and creative stuff of doing our job that we don't really put an emphasis on like sharing our experiences.

  [00:03:14] Sidney Evans: And, you know, this is not a easy industry to be in by any means. So anything that we can kind of highlight and give game on to. people who no matter whether you're, you know up and come in, whether you've been done, you're doing it and you want to continue to be at the top of your game. I feel like this is, this is very due and necessary.

  [00:03:35] Sidney Evans: So yes, sir. So to kind of get the ball rolling, man. I just wanted to kind of know a little bit about, Like your background, your upbringing where you're from, like what was young Dante like, what were, what were his you know, passions and what kind of led you to having that, that bug planted in you to pursue this as a career.

  [00:03:56] Sidney Evans: So if you go, go into a little detail about that I would appreciate it. 

  [00:04:01] Dontae Hodge: Yeah, no, thank you for that question. It's a great question. Man, so it started, well, I'll take you further back. Right. So I was probably eight or nine, maybe younger when I started playing classical piano, it was something I didn't necessarily want to do, but, you know, thankfully I was.

  [00:04:21] Dontae Hodge: living in the British Virgin Islands, which is where I'm from and with my mom. And she just wanted me to be exposed to as many things as possible, which I'm super grateful for that. Cause it wasn't something that I knew I needed or wanted, but obviously end up serving me well later on. So I did classical piano, learn to play by ear and to read theory, but mostly play by ear, which, you know, I have my feelings about that.

  [00:04:45] Dontae Hodge: And then that would kind of lead to me just always being around music and then doing it in high school. And I kind of have the classic story where I started rapping in high school. And because I was the person that was already kind of technical, I played music. I kind of produced music. I became the engineer for everybody, right?

  [00:05:08] Dontae Hodge: Even though I didn't necessarily know that that's what I was doing at the time. I just became that guy. So. I was messing with programs like GarageBand, MixCraft. What's that one? Is it Sonar? And then my mom would later get me Pro Tools and a MacBook with Logic. And that would change my life. Like truly, like.

  [00:05:31] Dontae Hodge: Cause I now teach at SAE, which is a school local here to Atlanta audio engineering school. And I always tell them, you know, I was fortunate to have started working in Pro Tools in high school, which I'm 31 now. So that's, you know, over 15 years ago at this point. So yeah, that's, that's kind of where it started.

  [00:05:50] Dontae Hodge: And then I realized that this, it was a thing that I could do. I found a school by the name of Full Sail University. My mom was kind of all in on me doing whatever I was passionate about, even though I had a full ride scholarship to do competition sailing at another school, because that's another thing I did in high school.

  [00:06:08] Dontae Hodge: I was into competition sailing and I represented the BVI and was a top sailor in the BVI. But my mom was kind of just supportive of me doing whatever I was passionate about. We went and toured full sail and that put the stamp on it. I was like, this is what I want to do. with my life and the rest is kind of history.

  [00:06:24] Dontae Hodge: I went to Full Sail, got my bachelor's in recording arts and started working in the industry. I was 19 when I started in the industry. 

  [00:06:34] Sidney Evans: Your experience at Full Sail was, for it to be, have been in that timeframe was very important because obviously, like you said, you got into it for music and it was right in the middle of the transition from like the old, you know, It was digital, you know, people weren't using like the analog stuff the more.

  [00:06:50] Sidney Evans: So what was your, like, what did, what did they, what did they teach you as far as that? Was it like, they, they wanted to show you like the, the old school way of doing things. So you can have that foundation, but emphasize like that. This is where it was going, or were they kind of like purists, where it's like, I don't really care what's going on in the future as far as digital, like, this is how we learn, this is what we teach, and no matter the, the, the state of the industry, we're going to teach it this certain way.

  [00:07:17] Sidney Evans: So was it either this or that, or was like a combination of the two? 

  [00:07:21] Dontae Hodge: Yeah, no, it was this and that. And you know, that's the cool thing about full sale. And I believe they still have these principles even over a decade later, where they teach the foundational principles on analog. They still have all of their analog consoles.

  [00:07:36] Dontae Hodge: So they have SSL 9, 000 J. But just still to this day, my favorite console. So I have every SSL 9, 000 J plugin that exists because of my time at full sale and just learning signal flow on that console. So it was this and that, like we learned signal flow from a console perspective, and then learn how to apply that to pro tools or any DAW and how the two are one in the same, because pro tools is built on the principles.

  [00:08:03] Dontae Hodge: Of tape off consoles. So that's how we learn. And even to this day, that's how I teach my students. Even though SAE's curriculum is a little bit different, I still always take the curriculum and make it make sense to where. Where I'm showing them, Hey, this is where it started. And this is how it relates to pro tools or any DAW.

  [00:08:24] Dontae Hodge: This is why pro signal flows from the top to the bottom. This is why it works like this. This is why it ends up, you know what I'm saying? So Fosay was definitely this and that. And I'm so thankful for that because. You know, to this day, even when I mix records, it's like, I want to have that analog sound, you know, this past studio that I used to work at, they had a SSL matrix.

  [00:08:47] Dontae Hodge: And I would always sum to that console when I was mixing music, just because. We're kind of like the last generation that is coming up that came up that way. Cause a lot of the new, newer engineers, their introduction is all digital, you know, and I think it's important to kind of know where we came from.

  [00:09:07] Dontae Hodge: So I lean into that when I'm teaching people. 

  [00:09:10] Sidney Evans: That's great, man. So I as far as me, like I'm a little bit older than you, but I do not have like as traditional of a, of a background in audio, like I was kind of mostly self taught, I guess my initial. Pursuit was, or my initial interest in, in audio in general was because of music and that's kind of how I learned all the foundational tools.

  [00:09:29] Sidney Evans: And obviously we worked together at a, at a podcast production company. So eventually you did make the transition from music to podcasting, but that's jumping the gun a little bit. I do want to know more about like, okay, you, you. Figured out what your thing was you went to school for it. You got the knowledge you got the foundation for it So what was your experience like?

  [00:09:51] Sidney Evans: actually jumping into The industry and actually working because there's it whether you're studying engineering, you know whether you're go to school get your under undergrad degree in business where you get an MBA and There's a educational world. And then there's the real world where you have to apply all this stuff and the speed at which things happen is, is, is much faster than the learning process.

  [00:10:16] Sidney Evans: And it's just a whole different game. So what was that like for you actually working? In the music industry. 

  [00:10:23] Dontae Hodge: Yeah. Wow. So one thing I want to say before I jump to that question is you touched on something that's like a hot topic. And I get people asking me all the time, like, should I go to school? Should I just get into the industry?

  [00:10:36] Dontae Hodge: And I just want to touch on that really quickly. Cause I feel like people watching this might have that same question because we're a good example of two people who did it two different ways, but ended up in the same place. Right. And I think. That's just the reality of it, like there's no right answer. I would say if you have the resources to go to school and it makes sense.

  [00:10:55] Dontae Hodge: Go to school, but also you don't have to go to school, right? Like, you know, I ended up interning at a studio when I first got out, and that could have easily have been my rot without school, right? I could have just interned at the studio and get all that experience. So I would say there's no right answer, it just depends on the situation.

  [00:11:13] Dontae Hodge: So I just want to encourage anybody who might be watching this, and they're like, okay, I don't have the money to go to school. That's fine. Go intern at a studio, find a mentor. So I just wanted to say that. So now to get to where it started, it started here in Atlanta at a studio called Tree Sound Studio.

  [00:11:28] Dontae Hodge: So I graduated in 2012, moved here to Atlanta. The reason I moved here is my dad lived here. So it made sense. I had somebody to stay with. It just was a financially sound decision. Cause I was offered an engineering job in Miami, but the, the numbers didn't make sense for what the cost of living in Miami, it just didn't make sense.

  [00:11:47] Dontae Hodge: So I moved here, started interning at Shreesound studios and man, it happened quickly for me. You know, I came in and I was doing anything that was needed, like scrubbing floors. doing runs to the gas station, runs to wherever was needed. And there were some people at Treesound who saw that work ethic in me.

  [00:12:10] Dontae Hodge: And one day we were just sitting down and he was like, Hey, can you work pro tools? I was like, yeah, I can work pro tools. And he put me in my first like pro session in my first week at Treesound. It was with this artist. Her name is Edie Azalea. And it just happened quickly from there. It was like David Banner, who.

  [00:12:27] Dontae Hodge: Was working with Coco Jones at the time Cy Hyde, the Prince. It was just a lot of people in a little bit of time. But what I quickly realized is. There was this weird balance between me still being an intern, me not being on staff. So I was working on all these sessions being requested by all these artists, but I wasn't getting paid.

  [00:12:47] Dontae Hodge: I wasn't getting credit for a lot of the stuff that I was working on. So it was just a really weird dynamic that I was seeing happening. And what opened my eyes is one day I wasn't at the studio and Mace the artist, mace, he called the studio. 'cause I had been working with him and he was like, he only wanted to work with me.

  [00:13:02] Dontae Hodge: So at that point I started to kind of realize my value and I was like, okay. Something has to change. So I quickly realized that that situation wasn't going to turn into anything. And then I was trying to work at other studios, you know, just doing music and it wasn't really sticking. I wasn't really getting in anywhere.

  [00:13:22] Dontae Hodge: And then I saw this audio book thing and I'm gonna be honest, said like, I did not want to do it. Like I did not want to do it. I was the music guy, right? I just wanted to do music. But again, I'm just so thankful for my mom and her wisdom, you know, she was like, well, why don't you try it? She was like, you're young.

  [00:13:42] Dontae Hodge: Like I'm 19. She's like, why not try it and see what happens? Like the worst thing that can happen is you don't like it. And then you go back to trying to do music. And man, I tried it. I realized that I was good at it. The economics was, was way different. Like, you know, that payment came on time. I didn't have to chase anybody down.

  [00:14:02] Dontae Hodge: It was just so different. And I was like, Oh, this is what I do to survive and I can continue pursuing the music as a passion and doing it as supplemental. And that's what I ended up doing. I did that for like a decade. I would then end up being the head engineer at that studio, end up managing that studio.

  [00:14:22] Dontae Hodge: And then I left to join the company that we were a part of where I got into podcasting, but I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit. So I met the owner of that company that we were working with. So I'll say the company Frequency Media Michelle Corey. So I met her through the company that I was working at, Lantern Audio.

  [00:14:41] Dontae Hodge: I'll just say all the companies, you know, that way people, people know that this is real, right? So I was working at the studio. It was listening up audio. Then they turned into Lantern Audio. So I was the head engineer there and managed that studio. I met Michelle Corey at that studio. We kind of connected immediately.

  [00:14:56] Dontae Hodge: I was working on her podcast that was being produced at the studio at the time. And we just kind of connected and, you know, we would have lunch. We'd always talk. And, you know, she had this idea to start a production, a podcast production company. And she was like, man, one day when I get it going, I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna hire you.

  [00:15:15] Dontae Hodge: And, you know, I mean, people had said that so many times along my career and I was just like, okay, yeah, cool. Sure. You know, and so said, so done, you know, she built her company up was doing amazing things. And I was doing some contract work with her hand there. And then she brought me on full time. And then I did that for about two years.

  [00:15:33] Dontae Hodge: You know, and it just became time to kind of transition again. And now here we are. But in that position, you know, you know, we got to work on some cool stuff, some pretty big podcasts with some amazing people. And it kind of just opened my eyes to the world of podcast production, which I now consult people on that.

  [00:15:53] Dontae Hodge: And I'm trying to produce some of my own podcasts. So. Yeah, that's kind of like the long drawn out story in a hopefully shortened form, but I don't know if you have any additional questions, but that's the story. 

  [00:16:05] Sidney Evans: Yeah, that was it was very detailed, but but you kind of got right to it. But I do want to jump back and touch on some things because earlier in the conversation I mentioned.

  [00:16:15] Sidney Evans: The music periods from the analog days transition into the digital age, but then also there was this transition to where like the budgets and the money in the new age of music, it was like drying up and these people are like, you know, how can I continue to use this skill set to have a career? And then I think that's where it was another transition period where like a lot of the music people came over.

  [00:16:43] Sidney Evans: And to the podcast and audio book space, which is similar to yours. The question I want to ask is, do you think you had an advantage with being young and adaptable and not locked into anything as to where somebody who was maybe, you know, maybe had a family or 30, 40 years old, obviously they have more of an economic incentive, but also the older you are, the more stubborn you are.

  [00:17:06] Sidney Evans: And it's like, I have like all this experience in the music industry, which is like, not nearly as successful as somebody jumping into The audio book or a podcast space where, okay. Yeah. If you, if you're self taught, maybe similar to what I did, it might be easier to jump in those. But if you want to be self taught jumping in music, like you really, really have to have a different foundation and just a tool set, this, I would say even a skill set that's deeper and it's kind of more on the fly and unpredictable.

  [00:17:37] Sidney Evans: So do you think. Also, with the advice of your mom, who seemed like she had a lot of wisdom as well, do you think you were more open minded than maybe somebody with, who had been in the industry for much longer than you had? 

  [00:17:49] Dontae Hodge: Yeah, definitely, man. I mean, cause at that time I mean, I'm 19. I'm not worrying about where I'm asleep, you know, I had a older car that I was driving.

  [00:18:00] Dontae Hodge: So I didn't have car payments, you know, at that time, I'm still like under my dad's car insurance. So it's like, it was so many things where it was like, I can make an easy pivot. And, you know, I might have been getting paid, I don't know, 10 an hour at the time, but I was just like, Cool. Like it's better than, than nothing.

  [00:18:20] Dontae Hodge: So yeah, that, that made it really easy to pivot. And I would say me making that pivot changed my life because I became open to every other pivot that came. You know, I was always like, so long as I'm in the industry, it doesn't have to look like this thing that I've romanticized in my head and just kind of seen as seen the industry changing and riding that wave.

  [00:18:45] Dontae Hodge: So. Seeing podcasting becoming a thing and being like, Oh, this makes sense for me to pivot now, you know, seeing audio books becoming a thing. I'm saying, saying this makes sense for me to pivot now. So that's kind of changed the trajectory of my career. And it's kind of shaped where I am right now, where it's like, I'm trying to ride that wave and just.

  [00:19:06] Dontae Hodge: See what the industry is going and how I position myself. So yeah, I definitely had the privilege of not having a lot of responsibilities. You know, now it's a little bit different, you know, being, you know, 31, you know, having a whole lot more responsibilities, like a roof over my head. You know, car insurance, health insurance, all the insurances, you know, so I definitely have to be a little bit more calculated in that way.

  [00:19:32] Dontae Hodge: But I also try to remind myself, I still don't have any kids, not married. So I still try to even keep that in perspective because I don't want to look back a decade from now when I do have, you know, a wife and kids and I'm like, man, I wish I would have done X, Y, and Z at 31. So I try to keep that in perspective.

  [00:19:49] Dontae Hodge: Like, yes, I have responsibilities. But I still don't have all the responsibilities. Where can I strike that balance and being a little bit more risky? You know? 

  [00:19:58] Sidney Evans: Okay. That makes, that makes sense. Appreciate you sharing that to touch on, like you making the transition and like your, your relationship with Michelle kind of being the catalyst for that.

  [00:20:08] Sidney Evans: I just want to touch on like the importance of like, Building relationships because if you, if you, you know, if you didn't have that relationship, like not to say that the transition you made wouldn't have happened, but it more than likely wouldn't have happened the way that it happened. And, you know, there will be a different story behind it.

  [00:20:29] Sidney Evans: So even from your, I guess, your experience in the, in the music and when you made the transition To where you are now, but like, you know, podcasts and audio books, and even as you pursue, like, you know, producing your own stuff and kind of being more self dependent, can you talk about like your perspective on relationships?

  [00:20:50] Sidney Evans: And I'm not, I'm, I'm not using the term networking for a reason. Like I just said it because networking and I touched on this in the last interview. Is seems like the rigid, salesy, non, this is just not organic. It's not an organic or it doesn't feel like an organic way of going about. It's kind of similar to.

  [00:21:10] Sidney Evans: When it comes to like selling and branding, like selling is just like the commercials where it's a Burger King commercial. And they tell you, this is the, this is the, this is the product. And this is how much it costs and go buy it. Whereas a company that I would play revolution revolutionizing this Nike is just like, it's just storytelling.

  [00:21:29] Sidney Evans: You Nike net, you never feel like you're being sold by Nike. It's kind of like a lifestyle. So I want to touch on. The, the lifestyle of not networking, but building relationships mutually beneficial relationships with that. So you can, can you touch on that? 

  [00:21:44] Dontae Hodge: Yeah, I'm glad you added the mutually beneficial at the end because that's so important.

  [00:21:50] Dontae Hodge: And I think it's also important to realize, and I'll get into more of the question in a second, but it's also important to realize that it won't always be 100 percent mutually beneficial, right? Sometimes you'll have more to gain, right? But I think once people see the right character traits in you, that's okay.

  [00:22:08] Dontae Hodge: You know, I have mentors who they have nothing to gain from me, right? But because of my character traits. Because I have a character where I just want to be a sponge I just want to add as much value to you in whatever way that looks like They're okay with with it for for now being just I I get most of the benefit right and you know I was talking to about this on my instagram the other day where I was just paying homage To some of the people along the way who have been Provided opportunities.

  [00:22:41] Dontae Hodge: You know, that's one thing that I never stopped doing because I think that's how we honor those people, right? Those those people that have poured into us and provided those opportunities. We honor them. One of the ways we honor them is by never stop saying their name. So even when I talk to students, students to this day, I'm talking about the people who gave me opportunities who poured into me And those relationships and to get back to relationships, man, they are everything.

  [00:23:08] Dontae Hodge: They are everything. Every pivot point and every opportunity that I listed in my story started with a relationship. At Treesound, I built a relationship with that person. They saw me working. They put me on a session. They just, because of the relationship, they trusted me saying, yes, I can work Pro Tools.

  [00:23:25] Dontae Hodge: They never saw me work Pro Tools. You see what I'm saying? They just trusted based on the relationship we had built that I could do it. You know? I go to listen up audio books at the time, again, trusted with some big sessions, right? Just off of my character and the relationships that I had built with the decision makers at the time.

  [00:23:46] Dontae Hodge: They trusted me to do those bigger sessions. And then I got hired as the, as the head engineer and studio manager. These weren't jobs that were advertised. They came from me having a relationship with the owner of the studio, with the director of production, right? Relationships. And then with Michelle, again, my position wasn't a position that was advertised.

  [00:24:09] Dontae Hodge: It was created for me because of a relationship, you know, and I want to be clear. The relationship doesn't supersede my ability to do the job. 

  [00:24:21] Sidney Evans: Yes. And I'm, I'm so, I was, cause I was trying to, I was trying to find a way to jump in there and emphasize on that because the relationship may lead to opportunity, but you have to make sure when the opportunity comes, you are ready, because if you can't deliver, then they're not going to be see the value, which is going to nurture the relationship.

  [00:24:44] Sidney Evans: It could turn into something grandiose. I'm just an example of, you know intern becoming a, you know engineer or an executive or whatever it's like, okay, they're going to, you may have based on relationship, you may have an opportunity, but if you don't deliver, then you're not going to see all the things that come after it.

  [00:25:01] Sidney Evans: You're not going to have access to. So I'm glad, I'm glad you Pointed on that. So you have to, you have to have already done the work when the opportunity comes. 

  [00:25:09] Dontae Hodge: Yeah, like, and how you honor those people that put you in position, is by doubling down on the trust that they put on you by delivering and over delivering, you know, so that's why I don't take that for granted.

  [00:25:23] Dontae Hodge: Like all those opportunities. I was always like, man, like, how do I over deliver to honor this person? And, you know, I feel like I did. I, I hope that these people would say that, that I did, if you were to interview them or ask them questions. But. I can say with everything in me that I try to always honor that, you know, and even to this day, relationships are still blessing me.

  [00:25:49] Dontae Hodge: You know, I'm doing a lot of live sound gigs now, not to get ahead of myself, but I'm doing a lot of live sound gigs now. And I have a gig that's tomorrow. And the crazy thing about the gig that's tomorrow is I'll be mixing front of house, but the guy who owns the production company that put me in that position, he's never heard me mix.

  [00:26:08] Dontae Hodge: We just, we just built a relationship like talking. He, he sees something in me. He sees, he likes something about my character. And he was like, man, I'm gonna put you in position. So I want people to wrap their mind just around the importance of relationships because I tell my students this all the time, like being a great engineer is important.

  [00:26:28] Dontae Hodge: In some ways, your skills will get you in the room, but how you treat people and how you make people feel will keep you in the room and open other doors. And you'll be surprised that a lot of the people who are in position, and this is not to talk down on anybody, but you'll be surprised that a lot of the people who are in the positions, they're not as skilled as you think.

  [00:26:52] Dontae Hodge: And I want to say that carefully because that's not to say that they aren't skilled, but they're not as skilled as you think. And I say that to say, they just have the relationship. They just make that person that they're working with feel a certain way. They make them feel comfortable and the skills are enough, but the fact that they're just a good vibe, a good person to be around, they have great energy makes up for the rest.

  [00:27:13] Dontae Hodge: So I just want people to keep that in mind, you know, as you're watching all the YouTube videos about engineering, about protools, about whatever. Make sure that you are constantly working on yourself to have the right character traits, you know, so that you have the right energy and vibe about you when you're in these spaces, because that's what'll make people want to work with you.

  [00:27:37] Dontae Hodge: And if you're a dope engineer on top of that, that's just icing on the cake. 

  [00:27:41] Sidney Evans: It is definitely. And I'm that's kind of another perfect transition. You said to Cause every, every, no matter what business you in, it's a people business. Right. And you said, you know, make sure you are working on yourself to become the best person.

  [00:27:52] Sidney Evans: And like there's, there's so much, like you said, on YouTube and in, on the internet, as far as like the technical side of like engineering and editing and whether you want to do music producing or whatever, but I, I did want to make sure this platform was talk was, yeah, we can, we can touch a little bit on the technical stuff, but.

  [00:28:11] Sidney Evans: I kind of wanted to emphasize more of like the, the life of living and being a person in the industry, not just focusing on the skill itself. So, and I've always was taught to be, you know, be good at, you know, whatever your passion is, whatever your career career is, or whatever your working on, but to develop all the other areas as well, and even when.

  [00:28:35] Sidney Evans: I tend to forget that like my current girlfriend, she will not allow me to neglect. Like, yeah, you want to, you know what I'm saying? You want, you want to start the podcast. You want to be the best editor possible. You know what I'm saying? You can't neglect things like your faith and being a good person.

  [00:28:51] Sidney Evans: And, and, you know, Giving back to people less fortunate or helping people out that, and there's no way that they'll be able to repair you, but just doing it, you know, out of the kindness of your heart in what ways do you make sure you hold yourself accountable as to being the best person you can be?

  [00:29:08] Sidney Evans: Whether it's. Part of your daily routine, whether it's, you know, your relationship with your family, it seems like you have a great relationship with your mother, whether it's, you know, some people are super religious, some people, you know, love being out in nature, some people meditate. So like, what are you outside of like working?

  [00:29:24] Sidney Evans: Like, how do you kind of keep yourself? Not only grounded, but also fresh. So when the opposite, when the time comes to actually do work, you are coming from like the most censored, true to yourself way to where it's reflected in the work and it's of the highest quality. 

  [00:29:42] Dontae Hodge: Yeah. Wow. That's a great question, bro.

  [00:29:44] Dontae Hodge: Thank you for that question. Man, you know, one thing that I'm unashamedly open about is my faith and and what I believe in, you know, because. And the reason for that is because I see how it's affected my life in a positive way. You know, so how I treat people, which goes right back to how you make people feel when it's just you and them in a studio, right?

  [00:30:08] Dontae Hodge: Do you make them feel safe? Right? And all of these things that comes back to my faith and what I believe in. And, you know, it's something that was instilled in me from my grandmother, growing up in the Caribbean, West Indian grandmother, like I could not be in church, you know, and I'm so thankful for that man, because When I became an adult, it was the one thing where I was just like, no, I have to have this relationship and I have to have it for myself and understanding and know it for myself.

  [00:30:36] Dontae Hodge: And I went on that journey and it's just dictated so much of my decision making as it relates to how I treat people, the integrity I have as it relates to my work. And, and these are the little things that add up over time, you know, that, that you don't do for any reason, you don't do it to get any recognition, but.

  [00:30:58] Dontae Hodge: It adds up over time and people see something in you because I'll never forget one time I was the previous job. I had well, I listen up, you know, I was overpaid by mistake, right? There was like a peril issue, right? And I made them aware of that issue. So like little things like that, where had I not had a solid foundation in my faith.

  [00:31:18] Dontae Hodge: and the integrity that comes with that, it might have been easy to just ignore that mistake and just, right, take the extra money. But because of my integrity, because of my faith, I made this thing known, right? And again, I didn't do it to get any credit for them to, I just did it because that's me. That's, that's how I moved.

  [00:31:36] Dontae Hodge: That's what I believe in. And, but it is those little things that people see in you and they're like, Oh, there's something different about you. And that's how we show up in the world, right? As believers, as people who believe in, I don't want to make this about one faith specifically, but whatever you believe in, right, that's how you reflect that thing is by how you show up in the world.

  [00:31:59] Dontae Hodge: So yeah, man, my faith has been everything and family. Also, like you said it, I'm a, I'm a family man, unashamedly. So, you know, I, I try my best to show up for them in a healthy way, because. I've been on the other spectrum of that where I show up and I try to do too much, right? And we have to realize that we can't control everything.

  [00:32:21] Dontae Hodge: So understanding what I can control and what I might just need to pray about, right? So understanding, hey, I might be able to give advice about this thing. I might be able to show up for this thing. This thing I might not have the capacity to do anything with. And I just need to pray about that. And that's one thing that, you know, I try to do daily, you know, just prayer time.

  [00:32:40] Dontae Hodge: Yeah. Time in my word, you know, these are the things that I believe keep me grounded. Even in a season like I'm in right now where there's a lot of uncertainty, we're in a tough time in our industry. And I think we're all trying to figure it out, which I wish we would all talk about a little bit more because I think everybody's off on their, in their own little silo thinking they're the only one that's going through a hard time right now.

  [00:33:02] Dontae Hodge: But we're all trying to figure it out right now. So that's another thing I want to say to anybody. Maybe you're watching this and you've been in an industry like we have, and you're just like, man, I'm just trying to figure it out right now. It was going well. Now I'm just trying to rebuild it. We're all trying to figure it out, you know?

  [00:33:19] Dontae Hodge: So yeah, my faith is, was keeping me grounded and keeping that integrity, even as things don't look as I would like them to look, that's what changes. It is. Everything, you know, that's what has been presenting all these opportunities that are starting to come. So hopefully that answers the question, man.

  [00:33:40] Sidney Evans: Definitely. Definitely. So you just touched on faith. We talked about the skillset, man. Let's get into, let's talk, let's talk about the money, man. Like, let's just, just cause that, that is, that is an aspect of it. And, you know, from, from my experience working in the industry, you know, people will pay for writing, people will pay for.

  [00:34:00] Sidney Evans: Video like, you know, that's, that's the visual people pay a lot for that. But when it comes down to the audio, like people just kind of, it seems like you like scrambling to get the leftovers. And, and when you actually think about the, the experience of storytelling whether it's a TV, a movie, sports, a broadcast, like if you don't have the audio piece is, is, you're, you're not immersed in it.

  [00:34:27] Sidney Evans: Like there's a, there's a disconnect. You're, you're You don't feel that you're not involved. So on one end, you know that it's, it's. Potentially is the most valuable thing, but everyone else is seeing is at the least valuable. So the, when it comes to, you know, discussions about money there, there's going to be a disconnect there, man.

  [00:34:50] Sidney Evans: So obviously you, you know, you said you worked as you worked as an intern, you worked at, you worked at the studio, you weren't getting paid that much. You had some full time jobs and now you're, you're, you're, Venturing out onto doing like your own thing. So you're going to, you know, when you're in these meetings and obviously you have the, the money conversation is going to come up, like, how do you approach what you feel like you should be paid?

  [00:35:13] Sidney Evans: Like, how do you, how do you negotiate? And then. Obviously, there's different things involved on based on like the scale of the person or entity that you're working with. Like, if they have a huge platform, you know, you may be willing to take this because of just the connection to the brand. There's some things that you're like, yeah, they may not have the biggest budget, but I really believe in like, this is something that's impactful.

  [00:35:36] Sidney Evans: So let's find a way to make it work. And there's some things that people come to you where it's like. Unless you're not paying me top tier, I really don't want to do it, you know, so like kind of talking like those battles and conversations, not only that you have when negotiating that, but that you have within yourself when deciding on what to and what not to work on.

  [00:35:57] Dontae Hodge: Yeah, wgetting into the real. So man, the first thing I want to say is. Sound is probably the most important part of any type of media. And I just want to paint a picture really quickly, right? We can, if we were to watch a movie without sound, nobody wants to see that, but we can, we could watch or listen to a movie without the video, because there are podcasts that do that.

  [00:36:19] Dontae Hodge: There are podcasts that are just audio, right? So we know that we can listen to something without a visual, but we can't watch something without audio. So I just want to remind people of that. And I want engineers to have that perspective or editors, whatever you do to have that perspective as people try to diminish what we do now, as it relates to charging people and stuff like that.

  [00:36:44] Dontae Hodge: So what I'll say, one of my biggest regrets was is not understanding my value quicker, you know, because one of the things that I wish I leaned into more, I told you early in my story, I was working with Mace, you know, who was a very established artist at the time was a well known name and he only wanted to work with me.

  [00:37:06] Dontae Hodge: And at the time, I wish I had looked at that and put that in perspective a little bit more, not from the fact that it was amazing, but from the fact that he's probably worked with hundreds of engineers and he wants to work with this 19 year old kid who's just starting out. So, I wish I had put that more to perspective and realized my value, and that kind of segues perfectly into being reasonable with the situation, right?

  [00:37:30] Dontae Hodge: And how I judge what's reasonable is really taking the full picture into context. You know, how long have I been doing this? How many hours have I put in? How much studying have I done? Right? So I was in year one at that point in my professional career. So I haven't put a whole lot of hours in. I mean, I'm fresh out of university, so I've put some hours in and I've spent some money there.

  [00:37:53] Dontae Hodge: So that's worth something. But now I'm over a decade in at 31. I've put in my 10, 000 hours plus at this point. So I have to charge with that in mind, you know, and what's helped me is understanding what people are willing to pay me salary wise on a yearly basis. So now I take that as a starting point, right?

  [00:38:18] Dontae Hodge: I'm like, okay, this is what people are willing to pay me yearly on a salary basis. We know that no company, regardless of who's running the company, will pay you exactly what you're worth. They're going to pay you somewhere under that because that's economics, right? Taking that into consideration, and then I just kind of figure out an hourly number from there.

  [00:38:37] Dontae Hodge: And then again, what's reasonable given the situation, right? It might be, I might be consulting a church that's just starting out on some audio, right? Is that something that gets me going? Am I passionate about that? Well, cool. I might be willing to take a pay cut to do that because I'm passionate about helping these people.

  [00:38:56] Dontae Hodge: This is a topic that I'm passionate about, you know, and I'll be transparent. I recently was hit up about doing a live stream, right? So I would be kind of producing a live stream. So I would have been doing video, audio, graphics, kind of a little bit of everything. So we're talking the job of maybe four people I would have been doing.

  [00:39:18] Dontae Hodge: So now you have to take that into consideration. If you were a production company and you had to contract all these four people, what would that cost you as a production company? Well, I'm doing it as one person. You have to charge with that in mind because now you're under more stress. Now you're under more pressure.

  [00:39:35] Dontae Hodge: It's more work for you. You have to charge with that in mind and full transparency. I didn't, I gave them what it would take financially. And I didn't get the job. That'll happen sometime, but I was able to be at peace with it because I knew if I had taken a pay cut to do that job, the stress and the work it would take, it just wouldn't make sense.

  [00:39:55] Dontae Hodge: So I would rather not get the job than take the job for way less. 

  [00:40:03] Sidney Evans: Let me, let me jump in real quick because two things I want to touch on is that like you said, you're like, you're at peace with that for, for some reason it's like, when it comes to the money thing, like there's, it's, it's, it's all negotiation really.

  [00:40:15] Sidney Evans: Like there's no right or wrong. It's just like, you know, what you're, what you're willing to work for, what they're willing to pay you. But for some reason it's like, There's in the context of the market and all those things, but sometimes, and this is not just in conversation with money in all areas of life, like you have to, everything can't be analytics.

  [00:40:36] Sidney Evans: Like you gotta go, like you're a person, so you, you gotta go with your, sometimes your gut instinct or your, your, your, your, your discernment or your whether that's, you know, like you might get discernment from God to tell you whether you should do it or not, even though the numbers may to make sense.

  [00:40:52] Dontae Hodge: No, bro. I'm glad you brought it up. Cause you're absolutely right. And as I strengthened my faith, that is part of it. Like, what is my spirit telling me about this thing? Like, because again, just being around it, you kind of learn what it takes. Right. And then as you start investing in your own equipment, you know, like I'm bringing my own console, I'm bringing my own microphones, you know, maybe I'm leveraging a relationship to get some equipment, you know, you have to put value on all of those things.

  [00:41:21] Dontae Hodge: You know, for example, if you were to rent your console to anybody else, maybe it'll be 300 a day, right? You, you have to fact that factor that in when you're invoicing for this gig. So that's one thing that I'm really, really big about now, man, just taking time to pray about it and using that discernment, you know, cause man, all, all money isn't good money.

  [00:41:46] Dontae Hodge: You know, every opportunity isn't an opportunity you should be taking. You know, and I've learned that the hard way, you know, I've learned that the hard way, just chasing the money, chasing the bag. You know, and realizing that no peace came from it or it turned into something else and there is not a dollar that's worth that if you believe in your faith again, my faith is God, that's me.

  [00:42:11] Dontae Hodge: Right. But if you believe in whatever you believe in, you know, you have to believe a strong enough to say, if I don't feel in my spirit that I need to be doing this thing, you have to believe in it strong enough to know that you'll be taken care of somewhere else in another way. So I always find peace in that.

  [00:42:28] Dontae Hodge: If it's for me, it'll be for me. And I always pray that it works out, even if they don't book me, that it works out for them. But if it doesn't work out for them, I understand that, you know, that'll be revealed to them that, Hey, next time, maybe we'll book him 

  [00:42:41] Sidney Evans: or not. But when you say like, okay, maybe they, you charge them something, they don't do it and they book somebody as cheaper and it doesn't work out.

  [00:42:49] Sidney Evans: They may not book you. Of what you charge, but they may book somebody else for that, which I know for all of us in doing it together, I'm not devaluing the industry. So over the course of time, the next opportunities I get, it will be more in alignment for what I think the value of what we do is. And I think that's the ultimate goal.

  [00:43:17] Dontae Hodge: Yeah, that's real. That's real. And how I look at it too, bro, is The quicker I can get to, this is a weird way to look at it, but hear me out. The quicker I can get a note from somebody, the quicker I can find my people. 

  [00:43:31] Sidney Evans: Exactly. So yeah, we're we're, we're going to wrap things up soon, but for this last portion I just want to end things on a lighter note, man.

  [00:43:38] Sidney Evans: We kinda, we, Talked about your story, talked about your journey, talked about money, talked about skillset, relationships. So I want to kind of just end things on a much lighter note. So I got a couple questions to ask. You're a music guy. So this I asked all my guests this, but I think this would be, you're particularly fond of these questions and looking, looking forward to seeing what your responses will be.

  [00:44:01] Sidney Evans: So, first one is what is your favorite album of all time?

  [00:44:06] Dontae Hodge: I'mma, I'mma give you one that you probably don't expect. But when it came out, it literally changed my life just because I was kind of interested in music at that time, doing, starting to do the engineering thing. And I was just like, wow, this sounds like a motion picture.

  [00:44:24] Dontae Hodge: Get rich or die trying by 50 cent. Like classic. I mean, very violent, but I shouldn't have been listening to it as a, as a kid. But man, something about it, just like it was like a movie. It was just so beautifully done. So that's one of my favorites, man. I mean, I have a lot, but I'll, that's what came to mind.

  [00:44:46] Sidney Evans: Okay. So next is favorite. Music producer. Ooh. Brian, Michael Cox, Brian, I knew it was coming. I just He was on R and B money podcast. If you're not familiar with that, you gotta listen to it. And I, and I just listened to his earn your leisure episode yesterday. Last two favorite film score. 

  [00:45:08] Dontae Hodge: Man. I really enjoyed, I really enjoyed. Now this is one that, that new avatar movie, that was actually pretty solid. Like, yeah, that's what I'm gonna go with. That's probably not a strong answer. I'm probably. upsetting somebody right now. They're like, how could you not list? But that's what came to mind. Sorry, y'all.

  [00:45:28] Sidney Evans: Okay. Yeah, that's, that's, it is what it is. And last one, favorite TV theme song. Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Fresh Prince. I had a feeling I had a, had a, had a hunch, had a hunch. You can go with that. But before we end, like, how can people, you know, find you on social media? I'm sure you have a portfolio of previous things that you've worked on.

  [00:45:49] Sidney Evans: How can people. Find those if they're interested. Yeah. Like where you, where you at, bro? Where can they find you? 

  [00:45:55] Dontae Hodge: Yeah. So the two main places. will be Instagram. I'm at Don's press play. So that's D O N Z press play. I'm still working on being better at posting audio content. Like right now it's a super like inspirational page, which that is part of who I am.

  [00:46:13] Dontae Hodge: So I'm in the season of trying to balance all of the things that are in me. Right. So I love inspiring people. I love, you know, find people up and getting people. To go after whatever it is that they feel like they want to go after. So I post a lot of that stuff on there, but I'm working on some audio content and just finding that balance.

  [00:46:31] Dontae Hodge: So at Don's press play on Instagram. And LinkedIn is where you can find like kind of everything that I've worked on. So. You know, if you look through my experience, you'll kind of see a lot of the names, a lot of the podcasts, a lot of everything. So that'll be a good place. I am working on my website.

  [00:46:49] Dontae Hodge: So whenever I do have that together, you'll be able to find out on my LinkedIn or in my IG bio. So hopefully in the next month to month and a half. I'll have that completed, but those are the two main places for now. 

  [00:47:04] Sidney Evans: Yeah, I think we're there. I appreciate you coming on wish you the best in all the future endeavors, you know, no matter how big or small.

  [00:47:13] Sidney Evans: And, and for all those listening, thank you for tuning in. And I will catch you on the next episode.

  [00:47:24] Sidney Evans: Thank you for joining us on today's episode. Please don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you'd like to work with me or connect, please go to soundbysaid. com and schedule a call. There, you can also check out the full list of productions I've worked on. If you'd like to connect on social media, my handle is soundbysid com on Twitter and Instagram. And I'm Sidney Evans Linkedin don't forget to follow Beyond the Threshold on Instagram as well. I'll catch you on the next episode.

In this episode of Beyond the Threshold, I am joined by former colleague, Dontae "DonzPressPlay" Hodge, a multi-award-winning audio engineer.

In this episode we discuss:

- His early classical piano training and growing up in the British Virgin Islands
- His experience as an from an unpaid intern to engineer, to a pivot into audiobook production.
- The profound impact of genuine relationships and character in the audio industry.
- The art of negotiation, understanding your value, and the significance of faith and family.

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