Ep.11 : Podcasting with Purpose: Jamie Albright on Advocacy & Accuracy
In this episode of Beyond the Threshold, I am joined by Jamie Albright, an advocate, forensic interview and true crime producer.
In this episode we discuss:
- Her family's personal experience with a rare genetic kidney disease
- Transitioning from forensic interviewer to working on true crime podcasts.
- The importance of checking sources and ensuring accuracy in storytelling.
- Technical and narrative aspects of podcasting and its evolving landscape.
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[00:00:00] Jaime: So, you know, it's really important to make sure that you're, um, checking all your sources. Because you can have ten sources with different information. So, I really like to pull records whenever I can. So, I'm [00:00:15] ensuring that what I'm communicating when I'm writing a story is as accurate as possible.
[00:00:20] Sidney: Tune in.
[00:00:21] As we give flowers to black men and women making waves in the audio industry. I'm your host, Sidney Evans, and this is Beyond the [00:00:30] Threshold.
[00:00:42] All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Beyond the [00:00:45] Threshold. I'm your host, Sidney Evans, an award winning audio editor and producer. For those of you who don't know, on this show, I interview black men and women working in the audio industry to highlight the lessons and experiences it takes to achieve success in the field.
[00:00:59] [00:01:00] So, uh, I would like to say this about today's guest. So there are some people, uh, in the world who are like respected for like what they do. One thing that stands out, stands out to me is that I appreciate her respect for, respect her for who she is because she's an advocate for so many [00:01:15] causes, very compassionate.
[00:01:16] And she makes no hesitation about, uh, being open about the causes that she stands for. And we actually going to do a little bit, little bit of that today. So, uh, without further ado, today's guest, Jamie Albright, [00:01:30] welcome to the show, Jamie.
[00:01:32] Jaime: Thank you, Sydney. I'm so excited to be here and thank you for that warm introduction.
[00:01:37] I appreciate that.
[00:01:38] Sidney: Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. Absolutely. So how we connected me and Jamie worked together previously at the company that I work for [00:01:45] and I'm gonna do things a little bit differently today. Usually I kind of just jump into the background of the guest and kind of move more towards present day.
[00:01:52] Um, but because of the advocacy and causes that are near and dear and close to her, we're I'm going to give her a moment [00:02:00] to, uh, Talk about something that's, uh, relevant and more recent going on, and then we will get into her background. But, uh, Jamie, you're free to, uh, share what you need to share.
[00:02:10] Jaime: Yeah, well, I really appreciate you giving me an opportunity to talk about this as well, um, [00:02:15] especially because your audience is Black people who are in the industry.
[00:02:21] Um, in 2021, my family was completely shocked when our son, who was 17 years old, was diagnosed with a rare kidney disease. I mean, [00:02:30] healthy, athlete, we eat right, you know, it really. We were quickly kind of thrust into the advocacy side of things because I have a social work background and I did some research and our doctor connected our son to a clinical [00:02:45] trial.
[00:02:45] What we later discovered is the kidney disease that my boys have is actually genetic. So my next son, Jordan, was then diagnosed later the next year. So then we had two of our six children with this genetic disease that, as a black parent, I'd [00:03:00] never heard of. And so we have just used our platform to advocate.
[00:03:04] for better screening, reducing barriers with, between medical professionals and the black community. And we want to let people know that one in seven people of Afro Caribbean descent [00:03:15] actually carry the gene that has, um, basically changed and that gene can cause kidney disease and it's often undetected.
[00:03:24] So, um, we just try to use our voice to do as much as we can to talk about this so that people don't have [00:03:30] to be afraid. There's so many opportunities to get tested. know if you have the gene and then there's better treatment options today. So, um, you've probably never heard of that either. I'm guessing, I
[00:03:41] Sidney: have not had to look it up, but.
[00:03:44] Jaime: Yeah. [00:03:45] Um, so, I mean, medical things can be scary, but it's one of those situations where if you know that you, um, have the gene, it doesn't mean you'll necessarily get sick, but you can screen for it better. You can talk to your medical provider. Um, and we even had the opportunity to go [00:04:00] to Ghana last year, which is where the gene actually mutated.
[00:04:03] And so, to go back to the motherland for a cause like that, but then also to be able to see the beauty in Africa was just, it was amazing. So. Yeah. it's been a challenge, but it's [00:04:15] given us the opportunity to persevere and grow. Um, my boys are now 21 and 27, and they're both doing very well health wise, and we continue to advocate.
[00:04:24] Sidney: Well, uh, I think the, the most important thing is that they are, they are healthy and able to, to manage it. And [00:04:30] you want to be able to, uh, create as good as you want to be able to create, create awareness so that all the situations can end up like, like the, the one you were in, um, in the event that somebody does get diagnosed and just in general in the black community.
[00:04:43] As far as staying on top of [00:04:45] our health, I know we have a lot of a lot of a lot more information out now than we have in the past, and I think people are aware of it, but there are not as many of us that are actually putting the things into practice, and this is in reference kind of more to [00:05:00] your. chronic, you know, kind of lifestyle illnesses and diseases, but then you also have things that are genetic that are, are definitely less common, but we need to be aware of those things as well.
[00:05:10] So I think it's a double edged sword. So I appreciate you sharing that Jamie. [00:05:15] Um, so yeah, just to kind of, uh, Put an emphasis on that and to get a little bit of a background on you, Jamie, you mentioned you have a social work background, yet somehow you ended up, uh, working in the audio space. So can you just share a little bit of about the [00:05:30] process for how that kind of actually happened?
[00:05:32] Jaime: Sure. So I have a master. I'm a professor of social work, and I have experience working with survivors of crime as what's called a forensic interviewer. So I interview children who have [00:05:45] experienced or witnessed, um, physical abuse, sexual abuse, or even homicide. And then I testify in court for the purpose of a criminal investigation.
[00:05:55] Eight years ago, my brother came to me and told me he was starting a [00:06:00] podcast company and they were covering a true crime story. And I remember saying to him, like, you don't even know anything about crime, like, what are you in pain doing, you know? But um, their podcast really got very popular and now they've built an entire company since then where [00:06:15] they cover, uh, all kinds of cases.
[00:06:17] And so what has been interesting about it is, um, over time there's just been more opportunities for me to step in and to interview some of the survivors of crime and to [00:06:30] do my part to. Also make sure that as we tell stories that we're aware of the victims that there are real people behind these stories And I went from you know Just researching to moving forward and being able to interview and then writing scripts [00:06:45] Worked on freeway phantom and just a lot of other projects.
[00:06:48] It's been really great
[00:06:50] Sidney: cool. So I having me having um, firsthand like worked on A good portion of the stuff that Tenderfire has produced and you've been there even before and [00:07:00] still being there now. I think the biggest adjustment for me was like, I guess I was excited about the skill that I had developed that I was being put to use and even more, a little more responsibility that I had, that I had before going from an editor to an associate producer.[00:07:15]
[00:07:15] But. Once I actually started getting into the stories and stuff, like, like some of the stuff can be morbid. Some of the, I feel like it kind of can have an effect on you, um, especially when you're, when you're a person who wants to, [00:07:30] um, similar to you, Jamie, like actually. Understand that these are real people's lives that have been affected and not just like, Oh, I'm just doing my job.
[00:07:38] It's just a story. It's just, it is. There is a storytelling aspect of it. There are production aspects of it. But at the end of [00:07:45] the day, it's like, you know, this is whatever particular event happened. Like it happened to someone and someone either they have to move forward with that or unfortunately they may still not be here because of it.
[00:07:56] But there are people that they love and they love them that are still [00:08:00] here that it. It could be, you know, riding down the street one day and, you know, maybe hear a story on the radio or somebody, you know, you hear a podcast, podcast has come out about this particular event that has affected you. And for the people who create it, it's [00:08:15] also important that we kind of have that perspective as well and not get desensitized to the fact that there are a lot of these stories out there, unfortunately, but you don't want to ever lose the frame of mind that somebody has been impacted.
[00:08:27] How do you think that has helped you, [00:08:30] um, along with your previous forensic interviewer skill, uh, kind of help create something that. People who have no connection to it at all can enjoy it, but the people that are connected to it, uh, is a level of respect for them in it as well.
[00:08:44] Jaime: [00:08:45] Yeah, and I think, you know, even when you and I work together, I immediately sense that about you, that you are a caring and compassionate person.
[00:08:51] So I've been really lucky to work with other people that share that sentiment, right? Because While we are telling stories and you do not [00:09:00] need someone's permission to tell their story, you know, we do try to reach out to families and we want to help highlight their stories. And when we aren't able to get a family's consent, it still is important to make sure that we're researching and fact checking because you want to get it [00:09:15] right.
[00:09:15] You don't want a victim blame. And these stories are, like you said, they're real people and They didn't want to be thrust into the spotlight like this. Most people, and even people that do agree to speak with us, they're only often doing so to highlight their case [00:09:30] because it's been underrepresented. We see that a lot, especially with black and brown, indigenous families.
[00:09:36] Um, they don't want the spotlight. They just want to know what happened to their loved one.
[00:09:41] Sidney: I guess I never actually, uh, I thought about it in one capacity, but a lot of these times, [00:09:45] these things are like unsolved. So there's no really no sense of like closure really for those affected. And so for, you know, more stuff in the media to come out, I can see how that could be even, even more difficult, but I definitely, [00:10:00] it helps to be surrounded by, you know, other people who are involved in the process of creating it to have just as much compassion as you do.
[00:10:07] So. I appreciate you sharing that aspect of it, but I would assume there were some challenges from you going from forensic [00:10:15] interviewing to actually getting into the audio world, which is different and there's a technical aspect of it as well. And I know from engineering, uh, some of your like remote interviews, you really don't like to get involved with the technical stuff if you don't have to, [00:10:30] but I'm sure there were some things that.
[00:10:33] You probably had to learn some learning curves and, um, things like that, that you had to get accustomed to. So can you share, uh, what some of those were?
[00:10:43] Jaime: Yes, I think it's important to [00:10:45] note that absolutely that the technology part of it. I was like, Oh my gosh, I do not want to learn this part of it. And the good thing is when you work on a team, one thing I learned is you don't have to be expert in everything, but you have to be aware and have knowledge.
[00:10:58] Right. And [00:11:00] so when I came on to Tenderfoot as a. Um, you know, regular employee, it was during COVID. So I spent so much time learning on YouTube or videos. My colleagues sent me and to use different, [00:11:15] um, remote ways to record, like you make, like you mentioned, and I create a lot of different docs. So I could share that with our inner, you know, interview subjects and things like that.
[00:11:25] But I'm lucky because I work on a team, like. People like you who were willing [00:11:30] to say, Oh yeah, let me help you with this part of this so that we get the best audio quality. Um, but yeah, I think that one thing that's unique about podcasting is, is that you have people who are specialists in different areas.
[00:11:42] But then we all come together, [00:11:45] everyone brings the best part. of what they can do. And then we make a really great product. So yeah, so I mean, I did learn some things, even like Asana or, um, different ways that we manage our projects. Um, taking a [00:12:00] YouTube clip or a video clip, and it used to be easy to just send it to someone on my team and say, Hey, I want to find this audio, license this audio and rip this audio.
[00:12:09] I'll send it to you. But then if everyone else was busy on projects, I'm like, okay, where am I direction? So I could do [00:12:15] this myself. Right. Um, yeah, so that's the best way for me to explain it.
[00:12:21] Sidney: I would assume that for you, cause I know in the way that we worked in the way, just the kind of the beginning step for all of this is having to transcribe [00:12:30] everything, um, and try to find the best part.
[00:12:32] So I would assume that. Cause that was when I really, really started using Descript heavily. And that's like a, a major tool that, um, that I was aware of. I didn't necessarily use it, but now [00:12:45] that I've started using it, especially with, you know, putting out and releasing my own podcast has, has just been super invaluable.
[00:12:52] But, uh, as you begin to develop a skill set and, and Tenderfoot continued to grow. And I honestly, I wasn't, I did not know [00:13:00] of Tenderfoot before I started working there. And then once I jumped in. I realized like, Oh, there's a whole like contingency who's like, they're like dollars. They really are into this stuff.
[00:13:11] And I know that you do for like these trade shows and things within the [00:13:15] industry. I know you're kind of like one of the main representatives that gets sent out to like represent us and really just like be immersed in the industry and connect with other people in the industry. Were you hesitant at all when you first started doing that?
[00:13:27] And then how has that kind of evolved as you [00:13:30] began to get more comfortable and attending more of them?
[00:13:33] Jaime: Yeah, so, um, before I worked at Tenderfoot, I would go to the conferences because I actually listened to True Crime before Tenderfoot started. Um, and so I didn't go as [00:13:45] like a fan per se, but if Donald and Payne had a booth or something, I would go there.
[00:13:50] When Payne did his first live show, I went and helped and handed out fliers and things like that. So I already kind of knew the landscape. But I will never forget the first time that [00:14:00] I was at a big podcast event and I looked around and I said, Oh my gosh, this is the most diversity I've ever seen. So it was about year three.
[00:14:10] And then that night they had a mixer that was for Black podcasters and Black [00:14:15] content creators. And so that was, I can't think of what year that was, six years ago, maybe. And it was so good to see the diversity. And then there started to be kind of a transition in the industry where people were talking more about.
[00:14:27] advocacy and about caring [00:14:30] for victim stories. And so my background is kind of how I ended up being invited to speak on panels by actually other podcast organizations. And so I really didn't plan for it to be something that I did. Often, or to be part of my role here at Tenderfoot, but I [00:14:45] really do appreciate the honor to do that, to be able to share the importance of these different things, and, um, how we can all come together to tell the stories, and I think probably within the last four years, there's been a big emphasis on the lack of coverage when victims [00:15:00] are people of color, and so, That, again, provided me with the opportunity to connect with people like the Black and Missing Foundation or the Gabby Petito Foundation that we're working together to highlight this.
[00:15:11] Um, so it kind of happened organically, but I do love [00:15:15] it. I mean, I love people. I love learning, um, and being face to face with not only people who are listeners and supporters of our show, but also victims families who You know want us to cover their [00:15:30] story. I just I feel that is an honor to be honest with you because I'm able to see the impact of the work that we do.
[00:15:37] Sidney: Yeah, that's um, I think that for me when considering tenderfoot are Kind of just seeing that you know, [00:15:45] there was an opportunity to work at tenderfoot and then doing my research.
[00:15:47] I was like this really feels like because i'm a type of person like I I really I I really don't like to To work on stuff that, that is actually impactful to me, whether it's [00:16:00] advocacy, whether it's, I don't know, there has to be some angle for me for, it was just like, I got, or it's bigger than just podcast or it's a TV or a film that has to be some type of message that has to be something.
[00:16:10] That I can take with me away from it, you know, when I'm doing it. So, um, that's definitely [00:16:15] present within Tenderfoot. And I also think probably within just the true crime community for people who, you know, do it the way that Tenderfoot, um, actually does. And you said you, you really, uh, enjoy like the learning that has, uh, going into [00:16:30] this.
[00:16:30] And obviously you had the. The interviewing and the advocacy, that's kind of a part of you. And then you come into a room where, um, just a technological aspect of the learning curve, uh, but then you work through that, I guess. [00:16:45] Outside of those, like, what are some things just from being in audio from maybe from Tenderfoot specifically or within the industry as a whole that you were kind of surprised that you kind of, um, took a liking to or interest, interest to or some of the things [00:17:00] that you learned that.
[00:17:01] that have learned that have been surprising.
[00:17:03] Jaime: Yeah, so I think, you know, when you're a forensic interviewer, you're speaking with someone, you're getting this, gathering the story, and then you hand that story off as part of a criminal investigation. With Tenderfoot, when I had the [00:17:15] opportunity to actually craft the story, so I was no longer just researching and conducting interviews, but I was able to actually help write an episode.
[00:17:24] Um, of Freeway Phantom, which was the podcast that I worked really closely with, um, [00:17:30] Trevor Young from iHeart on. And it, we got to know the families and things like that. And we brought on someone to write, but we knew the story best. And so I remember at one time I'm in a meeting and I was just saying, well, I really, in my brain, I heard it this way.
[00:17:44] And, and, you [00:17:45] know, it was, I saw the story, um, kind of laying out differently. And then I was just in, sitting in and then Donald says, okay, well then you guys write it. And I remember at that moment being like, uh, well, I didn't say I wanted to write it. [00:18:00] Can I write it? You know, what does this look like? And I was, again, um, that partnership though, I mean, we, this was in partnership with I Heart Media and Trevor Young has a lot of experience.
[00:18:10] So I learned to outline the story and, and make sure I hit the story beat and [00:18:15] what's the cliffhanger sound like, what keeps people in the story. And so it was also how to tell a story where advocacy is within the story, but we're not kind of in someone's face the whole time saying, You're, you shouldn't do this, and [00:18:30] you're racist, it's like, let them kind of come to their own assumption about why this girl's story was not important at that time, and how racism still impacts investigations today, so that's a long answer, but I think to me, it's just really thinking about [00:18:45] how I've been able to go from just being like on the front end of a story and like gathering information and then passing it on to being able to see that story come to life through every different stage and every process in the production.
[00:18:59] Sidney: I'm glad you, [00:19:00] I'm glad you touched on that because, um, you're talking about, you know, from where you started with, um, not being involved in like the whole process, just kind of passing things along. I think a big thing. In the world in general, it's just [00:19:15] like people may be involved in the process who have like good intentions that may do an interview or something, if they're related to it, like they have the purest of intentions of, of getting the story out and telling it [00:19:30] from the way it needs to be told, which is the truth, but then you have these like entities or people who actually have control over what is actually put out and the way they kind of piece it together.
[00:19:40] may not have the same intent as the people, some of the people that were involved, you can kind [00:19:45] of, it's the power of editing, you can kind of, you know, lose context, the full context of things. And then if somebody, um, you know, they put it out and people are involved, it's like, yo, this is not what I thought it was going to be.
[00:19:57] So from transitioning to having kind [00:20:00] of being more involved and having control over that. I'm sure that's probably an ideal place for people who are advocates and, and, and do the work that you do. That would be more of an ideal situation. So I'm sure you're happy to be, to be more involved in that process.[00:20:15]
[00:20:15] Um, I actually want to talk about the writing part you mentioned as well, because really that's the foundation of everything is the foundation of media, especially, but writing is not a sexy thing. It's not that you don't need all the, you don't need a [00:20:30] computer. You don't, you don't need one. People use them, but you don't, you know.
[00:20:32] You don't need lighting. You don't need all these props, whatever is just a writing utensil, something to write it on in your brain. And for me, the reason why I [00:20:45] kind of avoided writing, um, and seeing the value in it for, for so long is because it takes an extreme amount of focus to do it well, and with today, you know, with so many distractions and I'm not actually, I'm not talking at anyone.
[00:20:58] Like I'm, I'm including myself in this [00:21:00] category, like sitting down to write. And things like that is, is not as easy as you would make it seem once you actually have to go through the process and then you have to get good at it, which takes more time. So I don't know, like I'm kind of embracing it more [00:21:15] because at the end of the day, like I started doing things from a technical standpoint, but the more you can do, the more valuable you are.
[00:21:21] So I would recommend anybody do anything in media or even outside of it, because no matter what field you and you're gonna, if you're creating content at all, you're gonna have to be [00:21:30] able to write well. And I know the context in which you do it may be a little different than somebody just journaling or brain dumping or whatever.
[00:21:37] But from what you have learned, from the process that you all used to write things, what have you learned the most about [00:21:45] it in general?
[00:21:46] Jaime: So, you know, it's really important to make sure that you're checking all your sources because you could have 10 sources with different information. So, I really like to pull records wherever, whenever I can.
[00:21:59] So, I'm [00:22:00] ensuring that what I'm communicating when I'm writing a story is as accurate as possible. In an unsolved case that's more recent, it's really hard to get case docs from law enforcement or government agencies. But if it's a case that's a cold case, like there's a lot of [00:22:15] time in between, Law enforcement will often communicate more.
[00:22:18] So again, those sources are really important to me, making sure that we're communicating things correctly. Then again, like you said, their writing is just such a special skill. I do not, um, I [00:22:30] don't use any type of writing assistance or, you know, anything like that AI or things like that. I actually just write and I like to write when it's completely quiet.
[00:22:39] There's no distraction. So for me, I find myself writing 2, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning often, which is not [00:22:45] ideal, but it's life happens. I have, you know, Children and family life. And even though I work during the day, it's when I find the most just silence, you know, where I can just write. Um, and then I also think it's important to have someone that is [00:23:00] willing to kind of Be your partner in that process, right?
[00:23:04] Someone else who knows the story well. Um, you want to always fact check, things like that. Then I also think it's important to remember that, like you said, writing isn't sexy. There are details [00:23:15] sometimes in true crime stories that might grab someone's attention, but I always find myself asking, do I need to share this detail to communicate the important like pieces of the story because I don't want to communicate things that are so gory [00:23:30] or so off putting or harmful to the family.
[00:23:32] For me, that's really, really important. Um, we left out a lot of things from case documents in, um, Freeway Phantom because what happened to those girls was absolutely horrific, but would sharing that [00:23:45] information in any way, um, you know, Like, help the story, or would it be hurtful to the family? So, I mean, those are some of my things that I keep in mind when I'm writing and crafting a story.
[00:23:57] And, again, it's a team effort at [00:24:00] Tenderfoot. You might start, you start with an outline, you write, then people say, Oh, we want to make sure we add this, let's take out that. And, like, you know, this is a great cliffhanger. Let's add some music here, you know, whatever's gonna help. Keep people listening because you draw people in but you want [00:24:15] people to complete episodes and to complete especially if it's a limited series, um, Because that's important to the family at the end is when we're going to have that call to action and we're going to see you know if people actually submit tips and Make a difference in the story.
[00:24:29] So [00:24:30]
[00:24:30] Sidney: you so you mentioned, uh Fact checking a lot. And that's a, that's a term that, you know, I, I see a lot. I'm sure other people see it too, but, um, I've never really seen anybody, uh, really [00:24:45] go into detail about like the process for that, which I, I think is important, you know, just saying, you know, having the, the word, the word of people being familiar with the word, but not, Being familiar with really what's going on.
[00:24:59] Um, it's [00:25:00] important. So like, what is your process for that? Or what do you think are some things people should consider when, when it's time, it's time for them to do something similar?
[00:25:08] Jaime: Yeah. So for me, when I'm, I start with the story and then I grab. Every piece of media I can [00:25:15] on it, and I put it in a Google Sheet, and I watch everything.
[00:25:17] If there's a short doc on it, if there's another podcast episode, I'll listen to it. And what I'm looking for is consistency. So if something stands out to me as, oh wait a minute, this was said in this, in this article, but then this was [00:25:30] in the podcast, and it was different, I will even reach out to the journalist, or to the podcaster, and we can discuss the case if they're open to it.
[00:25:37] Um, so it's just that kind of thing, because again, if it's a case that is not, um, So you're not going to be able to [00:25:45] get police reports and things like that most of the time. If it's a case where I can access police documents, then that's, I don't want to say easy, but much easier. I can complete a FOIA request, I can use Pacer or other um, online archival sources and [00:26:00] court um, doc sources to pull information.
[00:26:03] And then you can literally see times are stamped there. I've had cases before where I've listened to Everything that's online or, you know, in the media about a case, and I've, um, found a few articles, [00:26:15] but then when I actually pull the case docs, even the time is wrong when the person was last seen, you know, where somehow that little piece of information that's incorrect gets quickly, you know, kind of accepted as the truth, and then it's on everything, but it isn't [00:26:30] even the truth.
[00:26:31] And then you have to remember things like today, Okay. There's no fact checking on so many of our stories. I am not anti TikTok, but we have had so many stories submitted through TikTok. And then I'll request [00:26:45] court documents or do some additional digging. And what I, what was on there is not at all what I have found in
[00:26:52] like the
[00:26:52] Jaime: hard facts.
[00:26:54] And that's hard sometimes because, you know, general. Society is like, you guys should [00:27:00] cover this case, you should cover this case, you should cover this, and there might be other reasons we don't choose to cover it. Um, sometimes it's not just a fit, but other times we find through fact checking that if we did cover it, it would probably not be, um, I don't want to say well [00:27:15] received, but if you have to tell the whole story, is what I'm trying to say, you know?
[00:27:19] And in a, What 32nd, 22nd clip on Tik Tok, you're just hitting the things that keep people listening and draws them in. Right. Um, and those aren't easy decisions to make because I [00:27:30] wish we can cover every story. I think they're all equally important. Um, but sometimes they can cause more harm than good, especially if you're not fact checking and telling the truth in the, in what you're covering.
[00:27:41] Sidney: Yeah, I think that for me, I think the, the reason [00:27:45] for that is because basically like. Like anybody can like do media really now, like, you know what I'm saying? Um, so it's like a gift and a curse because like you have the freedom to if you want to create something, but something that may [00:28:00] require, you know, like factual information, um, like, you know, I feel like people from journalistic backgrounds, they kind of.
[00:28:07] stay true to it more. But if you don't have that background, you really don't understand that aspect of it at all. Like you said, people could just kind of just [00:28:15] go for headlines and put out really, you know, whatever they want to pull out or present it in a way that's kind of favorable to like how they view it as opposed to the whole truth.
[00:28:26] So, so, so I know we've talked We've talked about some [00:28:30] heavy things because, honestly, the nature of the job, that's what's necessary. But I would assume that, and you mentioned, you know, you have a, you have six children, you have a family life, which obviously is a lot more positive and different vibe [00:28:45] from the work that you're doing.
[00:28:46] So does it ever get to points where you're kind of like. Like this is, this is kind of too much for like right now, one day I need to, I need to step away because no matter like, I mean, for you it's because of the subject matter, you can get burnt out on [00:29:00] this type of stuff. For some people it's like, I don't know if for me, like when I'm, I'm more, I do a lot of technical stuff too.
[00:29:06] So if I'm like editing or mixing an episode, like my ears get tired and I'm like, I got to take a break. I got to just do something else. That's something that you kind of have built [00:29:15] in or you kind of just go that way when it comes, like it's kind of like a natural feeling in the moment.
[00:29:20] Jaime: Yeah, you know, when you're a social worker and you've worked in trauma for a long time, I'm really aware of the importance of And I hate the word self care because it's overused but it's [00:29:30] an important word like it's the importance of honestly Having the emotional intelligence to say I need a break.
[00:29:35] I should work on something else. Um, obviously I can't do that when we're in Major production with deadlines and timelines, but I remember saying um as a joke one day I was like, I want to [00:29:45] work on something funny next like I need Funny story
[00:29:47] Sidney: work, you
[00:29:49] Jaime: know, um, and we do have some light, um, shows that tender foot to, you know, rattled and shook and radio rental.
[00:29:55] And while I don't work on those one, you know, if I get the opportunity to pull some extra crazy, [00:30:00] silly stories versus it being, um, a murder or two crime, there are times when I will. I'm going to offer my services to do that, because I also do a lot of outreach with our families. And so once you reach out to a family and you're talking to them about the case, you have a sense of like [00:30:15] obligation to continue communicating with them and checking in because they've shared such a vulnerable part of themselves, you know.
[00:30:22] But it is important to have family that keeps you grounded. I mean, my husband is great. When we would go on road trips, there's like a [00:30:30] no true crime rule, like, even though I used to listen to true crime before I worked in it, I can't listen to anybody's true crime. He's like old, he's like old school rap jazz.
[00:30:40] You choose anything else, but you cannot listen to true crime. Um, [00:30:45] so that's important. And then there's times too when, um, I know that it's okay to turn something off or, um, you know, turn away, I guess is what I'd say. Because right now the world is heavy too, right? There's the political news, there's like all these things happening.[00:31:00]
[00:31:00] So just knowing your limits and being able to take a break when you need it and, you know, just really that emotional intelligence to do so and to be able to advocate for yourself in the workplace, I think is really important. Yeah.
[00:31:13] Sidney: Interesting [00:31:15] perspective. So your husband says no true crime podcast. Um, I know he's like you mentioned he'd rather listen to music.
[00:31:22] Um, have you ventured like into podcast land outside of true crime or that's kind of just where you're [00:31:30] comfortable. You're just going to kind of stay there for a while.
[00:31:32] Jaime: Um, I have, I mean, I've worked on some other things as far as research and early things with some of our other shows, um, but not really.
[00:31:41] And I think that it would be fun to do that. You know, um, I've [00:31:45] always joked saying, you know, I'd love to do something about, like, um, having adult children because everybody thinks, oh, raising four year olds is hard. I'm like, oh. The stories I could tell about like raising teenagers or college kids, you know, [00:32:00] funny, appropriate stories, of course.
[00:32:01] Sidney: Yeah, I think, I think that's a, I think you got something with that. I don't know if I would have shared that if I was you, because we were going to be listening to this. Um, and they might have the capacity to actually do it before you, but raising adult [00:32:15] children, I think is a great. Perspective and angle to talk about parenthood.
[00:32:20] I haven't seen that. Um, so you might I will hold that. Don't don't don't give up on that one just yet.
[00:32:27] Jaime: I'll tell you our daughters in college and [00:32:30] art. I'm sorry. I brought my dog to work today friends. It was not a good decision, but uh, Or parenting dogs. This is what you do when your kids go to college.
[00:32:38] But um, my daughter's in college and just the text messages with her are absolutely [00:32:45] hilarious. I asked her if she needed an oil change the other day and she didn't know what an odometer was. I'm like, how is she driving not knowing what an odometer is, you know? But I mean, I really, I have, my husband and I had kids young.
[00:32:57] And so we have, we just enjoy parenting [00:33:00] them so much. It's just so fun.
[00:33:02] Sidney: Yeah, and I would assume like the younger you have them you can relate to them a little bit more So especially when they're you know, you know between like college and like I don't know 30 I feel like it's quite you know Or [00:33:15] 28, you know when they get into careers and then see them transition They're like, you know everywhere doing this doing it Robin Raitt on Little sleep, getting home late.
[00:33:26] And then you hit 30 and then that starts to slow down. I'm sure, you know, seeing [00:33:30] that as a parent is like, Oh, now you're starting to getting a touch, starting to understand, like being an adult is, you know, you get older, you don't, you have less energy, but more responsibilities. So, um. And all that stuff in between.
[00:33:43] So I think that, yeah, I think that would be interesting. Like [00:33:45] I said, don't, don't give up on that one. Um, as far as audio stuff in general, cause I know from, for me, I always like to always, I'm always saying for me, but I like to, you know, uh, ask guests to give guests perspective on things [00:34:00] that. Kind of have come to me or I have realized.
[00:34:04] And I feel like, you know, being in podcast and like a lot of people get into it for a creative outlet, but then there's so much information here about, Oh, Joe Reagan, Joe Rogan [00:34:15] may. Did it bill? I mean, I did a deal for a billion dollars. Not really, but you know
[00:34:19] Yeah,
[00:34:23] Sidney: the way things are going It's just all the all this stuff about the business of things [00:34:30] Which inevitably has to happen we live in a capitalistic society, but in some ways it can kind of taint The original intent of things, but in some ways, um, if you really understand it and understand who you are and kind of try to stay true to why [00:34:45] you got into it, but also being business savvy and business and having a business mindset, you can kind of get the best of both worlds.
[00:34:53] Are you into that at all? Have you learned anything about the, the business of podcasting during this time?
[00:34:58] Jaime: So, um, [00:35:00] as you know, my brother Donald co owns Tenderfoot. I said that earlier. He, to describe us, we're 15 months apart. I'm the social side, the advocacy, he's like the business mind. So I had made a promise to myself last year that I was going to learn more and understand the [00:35:15] business side and downloads and how it translates to money and advertising just because I wanted to grow professionally.
[00:35:20] So I have been meeting with. Um, one of my other colleagues, because he doesn't have the time, just trying to understand all of that side of things. And I do have friends who are independent [00:35:30] podcasters, and I understand how difficult it is for indie podcasters when there are the big names at the top or the, or the companies at the top, and they're trying to, um, connect and they're trying to make money because you get into it to be creative, but you give your [00:35:45] heart to this work.
[00:35:45] I mean, You guys work so hard, and it's not, it's hard to compete. One thing that I also did was I joined the Podcast Academy, which is an organization for all different types of podcasters. The bar to, you know, enters is [00:36:00] low, it's affordable, and people can connect. I got a mentor through there to kind of understand the business side better.
[00:36:06] Um, and then also it's an opportunity for independent podcasters to submit their shows in order to, Um, win an Ambie award because it is much [00:36:15] harder to compete with Joe Rogan, right? Or these bigger names. You're not, it's really, really difficult. Uh, so I, I do think I do want to understand it more, but I also think it's such a, it's unfortunate because the whole point of podcasting back in the [00:36:30] day, I mean, I'm old.
[00:36:30] So back in the day, it was like, you know, the bar to enter is, you know, get a mic and put out some good content and you can. Make at least some money. And what's happening now is I don't know if it's just, there's so many podcasts or people are also [00:36:45] on Tik TOKs or so many different. avenues out there to share stories and it's changed so With my friends that are indie podcasters.
[00:36:52] I just know how challenging it is for them One thing that we've been trying to do a lot at um, tenderfoot is trying to [00:37:00] partner with indie podcasters So that we can do show swaps or that we can have them on to read a critical missing segment and talk about their show And that's just a way to try to I mean tenderfoot started with two guys who didn't know what they were doing either, right?
[00:37:13] So how can we [00:37:15] also be? Helpful in this space because our company has grown. So not Joe Rogan grown, but, you know,
[00:37:22] Sidney: Yeah, no, that's the nobody. I don't, I don't think it's realistic for anybody to be like, Joe Rogan is my competition. No, he's not. He is [00:37:30] not. Um, but yeah, it was interesting. You, you mentioned the part about, uh, Like collaborating with, uh, independent podcasters.
[00:37:37] Cause I worked on a show, true crime that started off outside of the tender foot umbrella. And I think it, [00:37:45] I think it was, she did independently produce it. And then, you know, uh, she ended up becoming part of the tender foot team and they continued to show. So there's a lot of, um, opportunities, I guess, with just independent creators and, you know, production [00:38:00] companies and agencies and things like that, like we don't really have time to get into the details of it because honestly, I don't.
[00:38:06] I don't know as much about that as to make it a topic of conversation, but that is something to consider. And I'll make a note for myself to, uh, [00:38:15] to do research on that and maybe, uh, it'll come up again in a future episode. Yeah. Um, but for somebody who. Looking to, um, like get into podcasting, you know, and there's so many different tiers, you know, I feel like the [00:38:30] lowest barrier to entry one is just to do, you know, shows like this, like interview style.
[00:38:34] Um, but when you start getting into real, like narrative storytelling, like what you do at Tenderfoot, it could become more complicated, but for people who want to dive in and [00:38:45] kind of go straight there to that level, uh, what do you think would be like. Skills that you should focus on or, or some like best tips, um, so if they want to work, you know, at a company like Tenderfoot one day and, and do some [00:39:00] edgy, interesting things, they'll have, they'll have actually have a, a chance to, to break into it.
[00:39:06] Jaime: Sure. So I would say that if you have an interest for it, then that's probably where you're meant to be regardless, right? I think that whatever's on our heart is what we're meant to do. [00:39:15] Um, As I said earlier, we don't, you don't have to be the best at everything. I'm never going to edit audio. Like, I will just not be good.
[00:39:22] You don't want me to, right? But I should know the basics of it. And I should know, you know, how to get to the point where, then I'm handing it over to someone [00:39:30] like you, which is what we did with True or Crime. And then you're editing it after we've kind of put together what we want. And we kind of, Um, but I would say lean on your skills that you know that you're really good at.
[00:39:42] Be open to exploring your skills and [00:39:45] um, growing in what you learn, what you want to learn and your knowledge base. But then also if you have a pitch. Find a company that aligns with your values and, and, um, tells the stories a way that you would like to tell yours. And don't be afraid to submit your pitch.
[00:39:59] I mean, [00:40:00] that's how we now do get a lot of our newer shows is that someone brings us a story and we think, Oh, you've got this skill, whether it's research or. Even access to the story subjects. That's huge because we don't have access to everybody. So lean into what [00:40:15] you have, what you know, have an idea of what you want to do with it, and then reach out if you want to partner with a company like tender for some of the other companies out there.
[00:40:23] Sidney: So, yeah, shoot your, yeah, do, do what interests you, which artisans and don't be afraid to put yourself out there. [00:40:30] Um, more simply put. And I think, you know, the simple things are often the hardest putting yourself out there for your rejection following, you know. Your heart, uh, and trying to, to make that work with, [00:40:45] despite the path that you're supposed to be on, that you saw yourself on, or other people saw yourself on, those things can often be the hardest.
[00:40:51] Jaime: No, absolutely. And, or even like you said, like, fear of rejection. When we put out a show that I work on, like, going to the comment section, my anxiety goes from, [00:41:00] like, two to, like, ten, really quickly, because People aren't always going to be kind. They aren't always going to receive it. But if you know that you did your best work and you know your intentions are good and you put out your best, you have to just know that and not be [00:41:15] afraid, like you said, to shoot your shot and do your best work.
[00:41:18] Sidney: Okay. Well, I, I, yeah, I appreciate that, that insight. Um, so last portion of the show, uh, before I let you go, uh, It's a little bit lighter, especially for this episode, some of [00:41:30] the deep stuff we got into. Oh, but I just want to, uh, kind of know your, your taste in your, in your, uh, I don't know, inspirations as far as, uh, things outside of the audio world.
[00:41:43] Um, with the work in regards to what [00:41:45] you work on specifically, but it's still within the audio realm. So first question, uh, it's a music question. Uh, well actually all of these are music questions. What is your favorite album of all time or albums?
[00:41:56] Jaime: Oh my gosh, my husband is going to kill me. He is a music head and I [00:42:00] am so bad at remembering like albums, but I love Sade.
[00:42:03] I love Um, I'm trying to think Alicia Keys, but I can't think of the album names. He'll make. I don't
[00:42:12] Sidney: know. It's cool. I know. I mean, I'm [00:42:15] kind of, I'm not familiar with Sade. Um, and that's one of the reasons why I ask these questions, uh, because I'm trying to, I'm trying to learn too. I'm always, you know, look at it as a learning experience, but Sade and Alicia Keys.
[00:42:26] So the next question is a music producer question, but I don't know if [00:42:30] you'd be able to. That's the first one that comes to mind, I don't know. But what is your favorite music producer?
[00:42:35] Jaime: I don't know. Oh, Brian Kennedy.
[00:42:38] Sidney: Who is, who is Brian Kennedy?
[00:42:41] Jaime: My friend. He, he produces for Rihanna. [00:42:45] And he actually also has the same rare kidney disease as my kids.
[00:42:49] Really? Yeah, I love him. And he's so talented. Look at Brian Kennedy. He doesn't just work with Rihanna, but he is such a good person. He's also an advocate, and [00:43:00] he makes really good music. And he's, and he's won Grammys.
[00:43:04] Sidney: I've seen he's on um, He's been on R& B Money already, which is the authority for all things R& B.
[00:43:10] Um, it's like Tank and his writing and producing partner, J. [00:43:15] Valentine, but uh, I will check out your friend, Brian Kennedy. So favorite music, do you watch, are you into movies at all? Yeah, I
[00:43:24] like movies. Favorite
[00:43:25] Sidney: music from a movie. I'm trying to ask this in a way that's not as daunting, because [00:43:30] if I say, favorite film score or soundtrack.
[00:43:33] You might be like, Oh, but if I say favorite music from a movie. It might be get you there a little bit easier
[00:43:39] Jaime: like favorite music. I mean, I love like boys in the hood. All the music was [00:43:45] amazing. I don't know. I can't, I'm so bad. I'm like losing my cool goodness right here.
[00:43:50] Sidney: Um, that's cool, but I mean, we're, we're getting there where, you know, so the music from boys in the hood.
[00:43:57] Okay. Yeah, that's a good one. We don't have to, we don't have to, we don't have to [00:44:00] dive much deeper. I'll, I'll take that. Um, so the last one is a favorite TV theme song. Oh
[00:44:07] my gosh, uh,
[00:44:10] Sidney: yeah,
[00:44:10] like, uh, moving on up.[00:44:15]
[00:44:15] Sidney: The facts of life. So you're one of those people, you don't, you don't just say the thing. You gotta like do the lyrics and all the time. So, yeah, the, uh, So you said moving on. Okay. So for the, from the Jeffersons.
[00:44:26] Jaime: I love that. That just brings me back to like my [00:44:30] childhood and like we would sing and dance to that.
[00:44:34] Sidney: It is catchy. You can't help. It's kind of, it's a, it's a make you want to dance kind of song jingle. So definitely understood. Okay. I'm going to, I'm going to take the pressure off you. That's the last one. So. Thank God. [00:44:45] I appreciate your answers. I saw you start to sweat a little bit when I started answering these questions.
[00:44:50] Cause
[00:44:50] Jaime: my husband would die. He's like, he knows every song. And I'll say, honey, what's that song I like? And he's like, oh my gosh, I don't know. I'm not a music girl.
[00:44:59] Sidney: That's [00:45:00] cool. That's cool. Um, but overall, I just appreciate you, uh, sharing everything, sharing your background, sharing your taste, and answering some of those not so, uh, easy, kind of more difficult questions to answer.
[00:45:10] Uh, so I appreciate it. Jamie. Uh, so before we [00:45:15] jump off, can you just share as far as Tenderfoot, any, any Tenderfoot, uh, productions or things going on, going on right now that you would like to shout out?
[00:45:24] Jaime: Sure. As you mentioned, we have a season two of True or Crime that's out right now. It's doing really well.
[00:45:29] [00:45:30] Um, I worked on that. Um, I'm also working on a project that actually right. in my community, a young lady that was found, unfortunately, dead near a pool. Her name was Mercedes Chico Sims, and this will be the closest case I ever work on. She went to school with one of my sons. [00:45:45] So really close to home, but we're hoping to get, um, that family some coverage.
[00:45:49] And um, working on a few wrongful conviction stories, and then we have a new show called Up and Vanished Weekly, where I had the opportunity to be a special guest last week and talk about a case from about [00:46:00] 29 years ago. So, got my hands in a lot of different things, but, um, I love the work, and I just wanted to say to you, you, um, were such a joy to work with, and I really think you're such a good person, and I'm excited that you have a new show that's out, [00:46:15] and I mean, I will definitely support.
[00:46:17] Sidney: Oh, yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Jamie. And, um, check out some of the tenderful stuff she mentioned as well. Very tastefully and well done. I can attest to it firsthand. So, um, thank you for coming on again, Jamie, please [00:46:30] support her in any way that you can. And, uh, yeah, for those listening, I guess we'll catch you on the next one.
[00:46:39] for joining us on today's episode. Please don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a [00:46:45] review. If you'd like to work with me or connect, please go to soundbysound. com. And schedule a call there. You can also check out the full list of productions I've worked on. If you'd like to connect on social media, my handle is soundbysay.[00:47:00]
[00:47:00] com on Twitter and Instagram, and I'm Sidney Evans on LinkedIn. Don't forget to follow Beyond the Threshold on Instagram as well. I'll catch you on the next [00:47:15] episode.