Ep.14 : The Artistry of Audio Dramas w/ Yhane Washington Smith
In this episode of 'Beyond the Threshold,host Sidney Evans is joined byYhane Washington Smith, an independent audio creator known for her successful audio dramas 'Harlem Queen,' 'The Courtship of Mona Mae,' and '1972.'
In this episode we discuss:
Her challenges transitioning her filmmaking aspirations into audio dramas.
The importance of casting and the complexities of production.
Self-funding her first projects, gaining grants, and earning through Patreon.
The marketing efforts necessary to succeed in the audio drama space.
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[00:00:00] Yhane: I'm a writer first, and I feel like if you are a writer, making an audio drama or fiction podcast is a wonderful opportunity for you to get your writing and your stories out there. I think some writers are deterred by the fact that you don't have a visual, so they can't think of how they're going to tell a story without using visuals.
[00:00:22] But you are a writer. You'll figure it out.
[00:00:25] Sidney: Tune in. As we give flowers to black men and women making waves in the audio [00:00:30] industry, I'm your host, Sidney Evans, and this is beyond the threshold.
[00:00:47] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of Beyond the Threshold. I'm your host, Sidney Evans, an award-winning audio editor and producer. For those of you who don't know on this show, I interview black men and women working in the audio [00:01:00] industry to highlight the lessons and experiences it takes to achieve success in the field.
[00:01:06] And as always, we have another great episode in store. You all, you all know, uh, if you've listened by now that I kind of like to just jump into things, but before I do always give a little context of how I came about, uh, getting the current episodes guest on the show. Um, in the past we've had, uh, people that just kind of, uh, code outreach to, we've had people who were recommended by [00:01:30] other guests and kind of everything in the middle.
[00:01:33] Uh, but for this episode, it's kind of more along the lines of me doing my research and kind of just wanted to diversify the. The type of guest in the, in the worlds that they come from. Today's guest was kind of musical, just going on an exploration to trying to find a little bit more, more diversity in the type of people that we bring on.
[00:01:53] And upon discovering her and seeing what she does, I, uh, it was, it was a no brainer for me. And [00:02:00] she was more than willing, uh, after me reaching out to, to hop on, and I think this probably was the quickest, was able to reach out to a guest and actually get them on the show. So I'm very appreciative, so I'm very appreciative of that.
[00:02:13] Um, as far as the background on our guest, uh, she's an independent audio creator who has written, self-produced and directed three audio drama slash uh, scripted podcasts, which are Harlem Queen, the Courtship of Mona May in 1972. Uh, as a [00:02:30] result of her work, uh, she was selected as a community scholar at Columbia University and in 2024 she was also selected for the Tribeca Festival and Air Media New Voices.
[00:02:41] Uh, she's also a member of the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council. She's also A-L-M-C-C grantee and made history as being the first audio drama writer and director at Penn State. Um, amongst other things, which we will definitely get into, uh, but without further todo, like, to welcome [00:03:00] today's guest, Yani Washington Smith.
[00:03:01] Welcome to the show, Yani.
[00:03:04] Yhane: Thank you so much. That's a very nice introduction. Thank you. I appreciate you.
[00:03:09] Sidney: I appreciate you. Uh, can you tell people where you, uh, are located now? Currently,
[00:03:14] Yhane: right now I live in Harlem, New York. Um, I'm from Jersey. It was always a dream of mine to live in Harlem, and so this is one of those dreams come true.
[00:03:25] I'm living in Harlem now for over 20 years.
[00:03:29] Sidney: [00:03:30] Okay. All right. Well, uh, I guess we, uh, gonna, uh, dive into what has took taken place within those 20 years and even before that. So, uh, to kind of jump right in, can you just give us a little background on, you know, uh, I'm sorry. Give us a little bit on your background and ki what kind of led you down the path of, uh, creating things that you have created and.
[00:03:54] The experiences that you have experienced?
[00:03:56] Yhane: Yes. Thank you. Sure. This can get a little [00:04:00] long-winded. I love talking about myself and my childhood and where I grew up. So I grew, I'm taking it way back. I grew up in South Jersey, which is different from North Jersey. I. It's like in my book, it's a different state, so I grew up near out just outside of Atlantic City and I've always like, like probably most writers, I've always written like as a child and I've always aspired to become a writer and so.
[00:04:28] When I was little, I [00:04:30] watched a lot of TV and films and I did not know that people wrote those things until I became a teenager. And Spike Lee's movie, um, she's got a have it came out and I realized, oh, wait a minute. Not only do people write these things, but black people write these things. So I.
[00:04:51] Immediately wanted to, you know, make movies and tv, figure out how to do that. That was years ago. Um, [00:05:00] uh, so I did not know how to do that other than writing. And, um, I went to university at, uh, in Jersey. I went to Rutgers in North Jersey. And, um, after I finished school. Uh, I wanted to go to film school, but I couldn't afford it, so I worked Instead, I worked as a p, all the alphabets, alphabet, city, a pa, an ad, a pc, an ap, all of the things.
[00:05:29] And [00:05:30] um, that's how I learned. I kind of learned how to make films or, or video or whatever, but mostly meeting other people and just being in that world and, um, all the while I was making my own short films and submitting those two festivals and whatnot. Anyway, jump ahead to like, this is all, I call it again, BC before children.
[00:05:55] I have, I've since had two children and BC before children. I was [00:06:00] submitting and writing and making stuff and using my little bit of money to make films and submit to film festivals. And then I had my family and um. I was a stay at home mother, which I'm very glad I was able to do. That was another one of my dreams, um, to be able to stay home with my children.
[00:06:20] And then once they got old enough to make their own lunches and get themselves to school, they were like, all right, mom, we're good. Go back to making your movies. [00:06:30] Because all the while I didn't realize this, but I used to talk to them a lot about filmmaking. And indeed, my son is actually, you know, going to school for filmmaking, which is, you know, another one of my dreams.
[00:06:43] So I'm so glad he's doing anyway, so I could not figure out how to make a film on my budget, which was zero. And I did not want to make a short film. Anyway, long story short, I went into [00:07:00] audio dramas because I listened to audio dramas while I took my children to the playground. So while I was home with my kids in playground and the library and the museums and all that, I was listening to podcasts and audio dramas.
[00:07:14] And so I realized that I could make an audio drama, which is a lot less than making a film. And, um, I, I could do it. I knew how to do production and I figured it would be more affordable and [00:07:30] less stressful, but. It's still very stressful to make an audio drama, but it is more affordable for me. So, um, I. Use my savings.
[00:07:41] My by by now, by, by then I was working, um, at the school where my children went to school. I was one of those helicopter moms who just stayed at the school all day and volunteered until finally my principal said, you know what? We can hire you. So I was very [00:08:00] grateful. So the money I saved, I used to make my first audio drama, which was titled, which is titled Harlem Queen.
[00:08:08] And so that was a few years ago. And um, I was very happy to make it as an audio drama because it is a period plate piece. It takes place in the 1920s, which I feel like I could not do justice, um, on film. And, uh, without a budget. And so doing it as an audio drama gave me, I [00:08:30] was able to build out the world through sound with music, sound effects, good writing, which is my.
[00:08:36] Strong point, the writing. And um, so it's been, ever since then, it's been great because I've earned back my initial investment and, um, so I made more audio dramas and I'm finally earning back. It takes a while, but I'm earning back those initial investments and so I'm ready to keep making more.
[00:08:58] Sidney: Okay. So, [00:09:00] um, I got a couple, a couple questions come to mind in regards to that, but, uh.
[00:09:04] Just to make it simple for you, I'll kind of do it one question at a time. But the first is, I guess let's just kind of talk about the content. 'cause this is a show for black people. So what, um, was like the inspiration for you to want to tell stories within that realm, within that world. Um, and then later on we'll get into like the logistics of actually doing the first.
[00:09:26] Audio drama and lessons you learned that, you know, you could carry forward, uh, [00:09:30] with you for the others. But first question, like what one did you, what made you want to focus on, I guess like black historical, that that realm, that world and, and provide that context?
[00:09:41] Yhane: Right, right. So I live in Harlem. It was always a dream of mine to live in Harlem, believe it or not, when I was a, even when I was a kid.
[00:09:51] And so I. I used to ride my bike to work. I live in West Harlem. My school where I work is in East Harlem. [00:10:00] So I used to ride across Manhattan in the morning, like the island of Manhattan through Harlem, like past the Apollo, past Minton's Playhouse, past Marcus Garvey Park and, and land in East Harlem. So, while I was riding my bike, I used to, you know, the brownstones are incredible.
[00:10:19] I, I think the buildings, the architecture. And I was like, wow, wouldn't it be nice to see these places back in the day? Like, [00:10:30] you know, the brownstones, the Apollo, the mittens, you know, all these clubs. And then I thought. That's what I want to make. I wanna make, uh, Harlem Renaissance again. Um, but I, I, like I said, I didn't think I could do it visually, but I felt comfortable doing it as an audio drama.
[00:10:51] And in fact, another thing that inspired me. Was that I used to watch this series called Boardwalk Empire, which um, is a [00:11:00] TV series which took place in Atlantic City. That's why I used to watch it, and I wanted to make the black version of Boardwalk Empire. And I was like, okay, what was going on with black people in 1919?
[00:11:13] And the first thing that came up was the red summer of 1919. And I did not want to do that. I, it was, I just, it was just too harsh. Um, so I brought it up a few years later to Elaine Locks. Um. [00:11:30] New Negro era, which was mid 1920s. And I was like, oh, boom, there we go. Harlem Renaissance. So it all kind of connected with what I wanted to do and where I'm living, and I see.
[00:11:43] So, um, that's how I was inspired to make Harlem Queen.
[00:11:47] Sidney: Okay. It's kind, uh, and I, it's this quote that, uh, I hear people reference a lot from Easter RAs just like, write what you know, and I guess like. From your experience, the life that you were living, like you were kind of seeing it and feeling it. [00:12:00] Um, so it's like, it's just, it's just a natural, uh, thing, thing for you to do.
[00:12:04] Like, for me, um, like I'm in the process of like concepting and writing like my first like narrative type podcast. Um, 'cause in generally the stuff that I have worked on in my career, there has been like, uh, with other agencies and production companies, it's just like being an editor, working in post-production.
[00:12:21] But, um, because of the state of the industry. Um, I realized that I gotta, like, I gotta create my own thing and, and I have a lot of experience in all of these other [00:12:30] areas, so I, I kind of wanna be able to do everything and create my own opportunity. But I said all that to say like, I was a, I was an athlete growing up all, you know, I, I played basketball and baseball once I hit my super growth spurt.
[00:12:42] Um. Stick stuck solely to basketball. And that allowed me to play in college. But when I came up with the idea was like, I, I need to write something. I need to create, you know, a narrative, uh, story for myself. I was thinking about like what it should be. 'cause I, I, I got to audio production 'cause I love [00:13:00] music and, but I quickly realized like there's a level of, of skill you have to have to create music.
[00:13:05] But I had learned all these skills, so that's why I transitioned to podcasting. But I was like, okay, well. I don't know as much about music, and I'm like, what do, like, what is it? I know, what is is it that I could just talk about without even really thinking about it? And it was sports. So that was when I felt like it has to be sports related.
[00:13:21] 'cause that's when I know more than anything. And then once I focused on that, that's when the concept of what topic, what event, what is the thing that I'm gonna [00:13:30] focus on? And it just kind of came to me. So, um, writing what you know, is always a good start, um, because you can be able to, it's, it's, it's true to who you are and it it allows you to, to.
[00:13:40] Tell a better story, which the better the storytelling is, the better. That's the foundation of it. A good story, and then you can figure out all the other things later. So I'm glad you shared that. Um, you did your, you did your first show, so what was, I'm sure that was a huge learning curve as far as like the writing part was probably something that, that's a, that's a, uh, [00:14:00] you can just, you know, do that anywhere.
[00:14:01] You can go to a coffee shop, you do in a whole hotel. You can do it from home. I'm not saying it's easy. It's a lot. I'm sure it's a lot of drafts involved in revising, but. You just put to the pen, to paper or you know, type or whatever, and you gotta fi you know, it's just solely on you. But once you start, okay, I got the story.
[00:14:18] I want to start building this thing out specifically, uh, in a podcast format. You don't, obviously you don't have the visual component, but I need some, I need some voice talent. I need some people to know how know, how to do editing production. Like [00:14:30] what was that process for you like?
[00:14:32] Yhane: So, um. I'm a writer first, and I feel like if you are a writer, making an audio drama or fiction podcast is a wonderful opportunity for you to get your writing and your stories out there.
[00:14:46] That's my opinion. Um, I think some writers are. Deterred by the fact that you don't have a visual. So they can't think of how they're going. They can't imagine yet how they're going to tell a story without using [00:15:00] visuals. But you are a writer, you'll figure it out. Um, so, um, for me. I say that because I'm in like four different writing groups.
[00:15:11] I, I did not go to school to study, film or writing or anything. So I rely heavily on writing groups, on people to read my scripts and give me feedback. And so when I first wrote this script, um, for Harlem Queen. I wrote it as a TV [00:15:30] pilot. 'cause that was my dream. I was like, oh, I'll just enter some contest and get a fellowship at, you know, this is a diversity program and pitch it to them and that that's how, but that never happened.
[00:15:41] So I wrote it as a TV pilot with sound effects and I took it to writing group and they were like, hmm. Yeah, no. What's going on in this story? Like it was not good. It was not good. And I realized right then that you cannot [00:16:00] cram a TV pilot into an audio drama format. It's its own different way of telling a story.
[00:16:05] You're only telling it for the ear, so you have to write craft it for the ear. You are only hearing this, and I mean, that's an obvious thing, but I think. For me, for that first draft that was lost on me. I didn't realize that, so I had to completely rewrite the script. This, the audio drama is different than my TV pilot.
[00:16:29] [00:16:30] For example, I had a choir in my TV pilot at the Abian Baptist Church, which of historical, uh, church here in Harlem on hundred 35th Street. Or is it 1 36 or one 38th? Anyway, it's one 30 something street. And, um, I don't have a choir. I can't record a choir. I don't have people like that to make that, you know, to record that and put that in the show.
[00:16:56] So I had to take that out. I made it, uh, but I [00:17:00] made it a parade instead because I can find the assets, audio assets of like a band playing much easier than a choir. So, um, those were things. And, um, another thing that they suggested, my writing group was the language. This is, uh, 1920s Harlem. So the language was different.
[00:17:23] And so I went in and looked up the language like Google, you know, a [00:17:30] dictionary from 1920 slang, as well as read old newspapers from the 1920s, like the Amsterdam News and whatnot to pick up the language, which was very important. This is dialogue, so they have to speak accurately. And finally, um. To me, I, I did not want to skimp on sound design.
[00:17:53] I, even though I had never, I'd never made an audio drama yet. I knew that [00:18:00] the sound design was very important. Um, and when I say sound design, I mean that the soundscape, the sound effects, not just the sound effects, but the ambience that I think that's the, that's the word of, of, of the city in the morning, in the evening.
[00:18:16] What does that sound like? Traffic and sirens and footsteps and you know, in some scenes when the kids are playing outside, dogs barking, you know, stickball trucks going by [00:18:30] cobblestones, horses on cobblestones, which was still a thing in the mid 1920s. I live in Harlem and downstairs from me, I say downstairs, but the street.
[00:18:41] Beneath me. They still have, there's still cobblestones there, you know. So, uh, uh, yeah, those are the things that I dug into strong writing and not skimping on your sound design. I.
[00:18:56] Sidney: Okay. I'm glad you, I'm glad you touched on that because [00:19:00] I, and I, I, I stand by this, I feel like in the, uh, storytelling world, like I, I honestly feel like audio is the most important thing.
[00:19:10] Like, if you're gonna have, like, I mean, obviously off you're, if you're, if, if it's a book, I, obviously it's not relevant, but if you have, um, I guess some type of visual visual. Especially, I, I guess I'm referencing more, um, when you have a visual and a audio. 'cause some people focus so much on the visual, um, and [00:19:30] they don't put enough emphasis on the audio.
[00:19:31] And obviously in the big, in the big Hollywood system, they understand the importance of it. But I feel like, um, for people like us that are in the realm of like. Uh, independently doing it, producing things where you're, you know, you don't have, like, you're, the budgets are tight. Like you gotta find out the best way to allocate the money.
[00:19:49] And I feel like, for example, you said you wrote it as a TV pilot, but let's just assume it was like a film, like it was an independent film and. People spend so much on trying to find like the [00:20:00] right, you know, I wanna spend this much of my budget on the camera, I wanna spend this much on. And then it's like, you do all that and then you just throw whatever's left to the audio and it doesn't translate because you're, you're not in the world.
[00:20:13] You know what I'm saying? Like, I, I really feel like you could make a, a short film if you have top-notch audio and you shoot it on your camera. It can still translate because the audio, your, your sense of, of hearing is, is, is strong. Like you, you can, you know, close your [00:20:30] eyes and still feel like you're in the wor, you know, you're in the world.
[00:20:33] So I'm glad you like, understand the portion on that. Obviously when you're, when it's audio only, you, you kind of forced into it. But I think that's something, let's say. You're talented. Right? So let's say eventually your stuff does get adapted to TV or film or whatever, like you'll be going into it knowing that okay, the emphasis of the audio and I, and I feel like it will help tell that story when you add those other elements too.
[00:20:57] Yhane: No, I, I'm realizing now that when I watch [00:21:00] TV and movies, I hear the audio so much more like footsteps Do not sound that clear and loud and perfect. Click clap. Clip in, in the real world. It just doesn't, like, I mean, but, but the, the footsteps, the door slamming, the dogs barking, that is all heightened through, you know, your audio storytellers.
[00:21:23] And so, uh, yeah, I'm much more aware of audio now.
[00:21:28] Sidney: Um, well, yeah, yeah. I'm [00:21:30] glad 'cause that's, that's a key thing that I emphasized on the show. Um, so I guess, okay, so you understand the importance of the audio. Obviously you're, you're. Kind of perfected and, uh, help, uh, and had other people help you. Perfect.
[00:21:45] Your, your writing your scripts. So what, so what is, what was the process like when you were Um, okay, like the script is, I got it down. Like, this is when I wanna move forward with as far as, um, okay. I need people to voice these [00:22:00] characters and, um, I don't know, like. What, as far as the production or post-production, what if you had any experience where you were able to do it on your own, but what was it like trying to like get people around you to like contribute to it and eventually we'll get into like.
[00:22:17] Uh, the budgeting part of it, like how do you decide what you're gonna spend your money on? Um, or what was the process for you to get more money once you realized that you needed more money?
[00:22:28] Yhane: Right, right. [00:22:30] So for, for casting the show, I did a few things. Number one, I asked friends, like in my writing group first, because a lot of people in my writing group are actors, so I went with who I knew.
[00:22:43] And, uh, other people, I asked for recommendations through people that I knew and people that I knew were filmmakers if they could recommend people. And um, that's how I got a few people Also, I. At the [00:23:00] time, posting in Backstage, which is the paper, uh, that lists casting calls was free. So I posted in Backstage and got some really terrific people.
[00:23:13] Um, but most of it was, I. People that recommended people. Um, the young man, Ian Bell, who plays Dutch Schultz is like perfect. He sounds just like Dutch Schultz. He's incredible. And he was a [00:23:30] friend of a friend. Um, so that's how I found my casting. And then there were some smaller parts, like a cop, an officer, a secretary that I had my kids and my husband do for me to fill in.
[00:23:47] Um, but uh. Yeah, that's how the casting took a few weeks of finding people to play these parts. And the role of Stephanie Sinclair, Madam Stephanie [00:24:00] Sinclair took, uh, actually was. Not the easiest thing, but, um, I did find her pretty quickly. Stephanie, Gabrielle, uh, Stephanie Atkins. Oh, so, goodness, what am I saying?
[00:24:12] Gabrielle Atkins plays Stephanie Sinclair and she was a recommendation of a friend, uh, who's a filmmaker. And, um, I needed someone who could have a French accent and speak 1920 [00:24:30] slang. And, um, I think I needed her to speak French sometimes, which she does not speak French. So, um, and she's been doing Stephanie St.
[00:24:41] Clair since, since the first episode. So I really. Got lucky with landing with her. And everyone I've worked with, I've been very fortunate because they show up, they show up on time, they read, they read the script in advance, they perform well. [00:25:00] And um, yeah, I just got incredibly, incredibly lucky with the group of people who, you know, came in and helped me with this.
[00:25:10] Sidney: Okay. So. Cas. So what was the, so as far as like the recording, like where do you, was there, were you kind of like spread out, like whatever studio you could get? Or did you have like a setup or, because I know obviously you have to direct them, so you, you both had to be, uh, together in order to make that happen.
[00:25:27] So, uh, how did that look? [00:25:30]
[00:25:30] Yhane: So the first. Time. The first two episodes we re recorded this was pre Covid, so we recorded in a studio in Queens and I just goed recording studios, um, in, in the area. And the most affordable one I found was, um. One in Queens and um, you know, everyone showed up. I got everyone food and lunch and all of that stuff, lugging food there.
[00:25:59] [00:26:00] And we recorded there. And, um, I directed with my friend, uh, Sean, who was the head of the writing group that I was in at the time. That's how I learned how to direct. By working with him because he was a director and um, it took us like six hours to record 20 pages. It took a lot longer than I thought. I thought, oh wow, it's 20 pages.
[00:26:29] It'll [00:26:30] take 20 minutes, you know, it'll just take a couple of hours. But it took us six hours to record about 20, 25 pages. Now it takes me easily four hours to record like 15, 20 pages, because now I, I know what I'm doing. Um, so my first. Our first recording was in a studio in person and then Covid happened.
[00:26:55] And so I learned how to record remotely by [00:27:00] using, um, I think we used Riverside and that was not that much different. It was a lot cheaper for one. Um, 'cause I didn't have to pay for a studio and I didn't have to pay for food or cabs. And, um. But I did hire an audio engineer to, uh, help me with the, uh, you know, the audio setup because that honestly is not my strong point.
[00:27:29] [00:27:30] The technical stuff is not my strong point. Imani, my, our audio engineer helped us with that, and that was wonderful because yeah, we could. By then, everyone knew their parts, they knew their characters, they knew the world, and, um, we were able to knock it out and like, I would h hold them for six hours, ask them to hold six hours, but we would easily get it done in four.
[00:27:57] Sidney: Okay. That's cool. So babe B, being able to adapt and [00:28:00] that's, I'm, I'm, I appreciate you just sharing like the. Like when you're, when you're doing something for the first time, like you have, you really don't have any idea like what you're, what you're in store for. Like, something as simple as me doing this podcast is just like, I'm thinking like I have a, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm technically savvy.
[00:28:17] But then I had to do all the logistics of organizing the, like reaching out to people to get on the show and then getting them on the calendar had to set up a calendar lead. So I had to set up all the questions that they have to answer when they [00:28:30] book. So I know. You know, so I can do the intro. Once I do the, I just, I was doing all this stuff and it was taking me like a long time and I'm like, I gotta create a checklist.
[00:28:39] I gotta be more organized. Like I have to create a checklist for pre-interview, then I have to have a checklist for the interview. Then I have to have one for. But for production, then I have to have one for post-production, then I have to have one for scheduling. So, um, I'm sure you learned all those things with your process too, because you can have all the assets and [00:29:00] things with it.
[00:29:00] But if they're all over the place and it's taken a lot of, 'cause you only have like a limited, and this is kind of, I don't know, it's kind of more meta, like a, a limited amount of like focus and brand power that you can put on something. For, for, and for periods of time. So if every time you're doing, if you're doing something regularly, you have to have like a streamlined process because you don't wanna waste that business energy doing something that you knew that you had to do anyway that you could have planned for and organized.
[00:29:25] You want to save that for stuff that's unexpected. The stuff that you are [00:29:30] expecting. You want to make that as as easy as possible. So, um. So the, I I would, I would assume like the organization part of it was a learning curve that when you, once you went into your other productions, you were like, okay, I'm, I can't waste this much time moving forward because I know I'm going to have to spend more, you know, leave.
[00:29:49] You don't wanna leave unex booga room. You don't wanna be on tight, like cutting corners and things like that. So, is that the case for you?
[00:29:57] Yhane: Yeah, I'm, I mean, I'm big on [00:30:00] learning while doing, by doing. I mean, that's the only way, if someone had told me how to do this, I would've been like, great. Great. Thank you.
[00:30:07] Thank you. And I would've taken notes. But doing it is a whole other ballgame. It is definitely sinking in more. Like, for example, I love to brag about my recording schedule. The first time we just showed up at the studio and started recording. But now I break down the script scene by scene, and I give us, okay, this will take us 15 minutes, this will take us 45 minutes.
[00:30:28] I wanna allow. [00:30:30] 35 minutes for this and it's, we always come in faster, earlier, quicker, and, and I think part of it is because the actors know they know me and they know their characters by now.
[00:30:44] Sidney: That's, that, that's a, that's a big thing. Make making sure they're prepared as well. And then obviously when you're booking time, like, you know, as the longer it takes, the more money it costs.
[00:30:54] So you have to learn how to tie to be efficient. Definitely.
[00:30:57] Yhane: Yes. Yeah. Those first two [00:31:00] days of recording, first two times of recording in the studio, I went over budget. I was like, dang. But I, you know, I had to, and I paid the ACT actors quote unquote extra and um, had to pay the studio extra. And I was like, okay, I need to figure out how to streamline this.
[00:31:19] So yeah, learning by doing, I.
[00:31:22] Sidney: I am, I'm, I'm a big proponent of that too. So you kind of led us into a perfect segue where you're talking about over budget. So, um, obviously you said [00:31:30] when you first went into this, like you had a, you know, you saved money, uh, and to be able to do it. But, um, and that was a reference to the first one, but I don't know what the process were like for the other two, but, um.
[00:31:43] What, so how do you, has there been a situation where you were like, okay, I have this amount, but I, if I had this, like I could really do this because sometimes. Like being on both sides. Like when you're, when you're working in the industry and you're, and you're doing work like, oh, I, let's [00:32:00] say for example for me, like somebody pays me to like do editing or mixing for a episode or something like that.
[00:32:06] Um, or for a series, it's like, okay, this is my rate. I want, this is like, I'm not going below this. This is, it's really not worth my time. In the, in the. Time that I learned to learn this skill, to do it for less than this. And then now I'm getting into the room where I'm creating things and you have a budget and I'm seeing it what it's like on the other side.
[00:32:25] And you don't want to, you kind of have this balance of like, I want to be able to get this done, but I know what it's like to be on the other [00:32:30] side, so I don't wanna low all people. I want to pay people with, they're worth for their skill. So what did, have you had a situation where you were like, okay, this is what I have, but I know this is not enough.
[00:32:39] Like in order to pay people equitably and to, uh. Kind of just pay it forward, do things the right way.
[00:32:46] Yhane: Yeah, absolutely. Just to, to make a long story
[00:32:47] Sidney: short, where you had to like, okay, I need more money, and what was your process for. Gaining that money.
[00:32:54] Yhane: So, like I said, I used my money first because I would apply [00:33:00] to fellowships and grants and whatnot, and no one was giving me any money.
[00:33:03] Fine, whatever. I, fortunately I had a good job and I saved my money and I'm big on investing in myself, right? Like that's what we have to do. Sidebar, I later learned that my second grandfather, the great-great-grandfather, uh, self manumitted. I did not know this at the time, like, you know what that means to self monument?
[00:33:22] Like you by yourself, you are a slave and you were quote unquote extra [00:33:30] to burn money to buy yourself. So that's what he, I learned that recently. So I feel like I'm echoing what he did. I, I'm, I'm investing in myself, so, um. I had, I'm gonna give you the breakdown. I had $5,000 and, um, I, I insist on paying people like I, I insist on at least offering people something for their time because, you know, traveling out to [00:34:00] Queens, printing out the script, learning your line, I mean, you had to read it.
[00:34:04] But the research that goes into was into this because this is 1920s, people don't. I may not know who Marcus Garvey is, or Charles Johnson or, uh, Zora Neal Hurston. So the research and I offered everyone something that I could afford and something that if I were doing it, I would feel comfortable accepting, [00:34:30] you know, of, of course, people are worth more.
[00:34:34] I wish I could pay them more, but this is what I had and this is what I felt comfortable like being equitable. And like I said, my. My standard was like, okay, would I do this for this amount of money? So I was able to pay everyone the studio, plus the extra that I went over and, um, I earned that back through grants.
[00:34:59] I, I was [00:35:00] very fortunate to get a grant from LMCC and, uh, my Patreon and donations contributions was a big help. And, um. Like I said, uh, Penn State used my first script for their, uh, theater department. Their, uh, not, not through their vocal department, uh, their voice actors, so that was quote unquote unquote, just [00:35:30] plaino lucky.
[00:35:31] Sidney: Oh, so they uses like a, like a, like a, like a teaching tool basically.
[00:35:35] Yhane: Yes, they, yes, they used it for their students in the acting department, their black students, fortunately. And um, it was during COD, so they could not do live shows. So they did an audio drama. And so, uh, they used my script and I directed, and they were awesome, awesome sauce.
[00:35:55] I went back and hired a couple more, tried to hire a couple more, even more. [00:36:00] And, um, that worked out very so. All of those things. And, um, the revenue came in, like the various revenue streams is how I was able to earn back my initial investment plus some. And so with that, I made, uh, two more audio dramas. I made 1972 and the courtship of Mona Mae.
[00:36:25] And then slowly but surely. Through more grants, thank [00:36:30] goodness, and ad sales and the Patreon and donations, I was able to earn that money back. And then I did a live show of Harlem Queen, which starred, um, Gabrielle Atkins and Tony Award winner. Carrie Young, she was not a Tony Award winner when, uh, she did this with, worked on this with us and used the funding, used the grant money for that.
[00:36:59] [00:37:00] And um, so the grants for me. Was a huge way of me recuperating my money. Um, and the, you know, the donations, of course, the Patreon, I started, I think I make each episode fairly cheaply, but like I said, that first it took me, uh, 5,000 to make those first two episodes. If I had my druthers, I would want. I would love like two thou 2,500 per episode [00:37:30] and you know, that would be the ideal, which is probably why I have not done eight episodes yet.
[00:37:36] I've done four.
[00:37:39] Sidney: Okay. So, um, before we move, trying to jump ahead a little bit, I wanna go back, 'cause I know we talked about like the pre-production, the writing, and then we talked about, you know, casting and things like that. But because I'm a such a big component. And I've worked so long in like post production, like how did you go about finding like the people to edit and like sound design and mix it?
[00:37:57] Like what? You don't have to go su you don't have to [00:38:00] go super, uh, deep level. But I do want to touch on it 'cause maybe some people listening were like, well what hap we can talk about the writing and the. And the, and the, uh, like the acting like, you know, can you touch a little bit on, uh, like the, what the post-production process was like?
[00:38:15] Yhane: Yeah, so my, the first sound designer I had was recommended by, uh, someone I knew who did podcasts. I. And he was great. But the person I worked with since then on all of my shows [00:38:30] also makes podcasts and audio drama. So I reached out to her 'cause I liked what she did in her audio drama, uh, experience Jay.
[00:38:38] And I was like, so wait a minute, you do sound design? She was like, yeah. So I brought, I asked her to do it for me. That's by listening to other people's stuff. That's how I found. People I reached, um, and Imani, our audio engineer, she does a podcast. So, um, I reached out [00:39:00] to her and, uh, what El Oh, an editor finally.
[00:39:03] 'cause I hate, hate, hate editing. Like hate with a hard hate and it's, see, I hate it. So, and I was able to find, uh, Jordan, who does editing through, um, I think. How did I, maybe through LinkedIn or uh, I might have posted on Facebook. I don't remember. Um, but usually [00:39:30] I ask people to recommend someone or I listen to their show and I ask them that way.
[00:39:36] So if you have work out there, that's great advertisement.
[00:39:41] Sidney: Okay, cool. Um, yeah, thank you for touching on that. So I guess the last thing, like last two things I wanna touch on before we get, well, last thing before the, like the ending segment, um, is just as far as. I know you mentioned the Patreon and getting grants and getting funding, but as like far as marketing it, I, I [00:40:00] obviously like, I guess Patreon is a tool for that, but, um, like what did you do originally and what have you learned to be like the best practices for like the other shows moving forward as far as marketing?
[00:40:12] Yhane: I'm still learning like what you were saying, how you learn by doing and you are realizing, oh, I need to do this, I need to do that. I'm realizing that myself because I thought, okay, I made the show. I just need to put it up and just people will find it. I don't need to do anything 'cause I'm [00:40:30] tired. But I realized like as an indie creator, you have to do all the things you just.
[00:40:37] You just do. That's not what I wanted to do, but I want people to hear it. And so I realized, okay, I have to put some time and energy and even money into this. So I'm figuring out marketing myself. I do ad swaps, um, or show swaps, feed drops. That's what I'm learning is a big. I [00:41:00] hope, um, I'm trying to get, I try to get on all of the lists, like every newsletter that has lists, every, uh, platform that has lists.
[00:41:11] I want to be on those lists. And those lists really do help because, um, they help. With discoverability. I was on a couple of lists the first year and that was great. And this February, actually, I'm on Apple's Black History Month, shout out. So I'm very excited about that. [00:41:30] I think we're the only audio drama on there.
[00:41:33] So that to me is big. And doing the live show was a big step in not only marketing, but community building and, uh. Uh, you know that actually writing a live show is even different than writing an audio drama. So that I learned that. Um, what else? Publicity and I have all of the [00:42:00] little knickknacks, the handouts, the stickers, the pens, the everything, and, um.
[00:42:07] Uh, just being in the community like Afros and audio, um, gave me a shout out, which was wonderful. BPA, the Black Podcasting Association, being there, uh, woke women of color, podcasters, just being in all the places so that people. Will, uh, find me. Um, that's a [00:42:30] lot of work. And, um, I realized, but that's what you have to do.
[00:42:34] Sidney: Right? I'm, I'm glad you said that 'cause I was just having a, I was just having a conversation that, um, because I always like to, when I have my guests on, um. When they make certain points, I always like to kind of relate it to myself because I don't know the, whether the way you tell it or the way I tell it, whoever's listening, one might resonate more than the other.
[00:42:55] Um, 'cause obviously we have some overlap. We're both in the podcast industry, but we have different [00:43:00] experiences. But at the end of the day, like you, you. I, the biggest thing that I've gathered from this is it's a lot of work. It's a lot that goes into it. And I know from doing this podcast that it's a lot of work and there's a lot that goes into it.
[00:43:12] And when I first started, like when I did my first couple episodes and I was like, man, that was a lot of work for like two or three episodes and I haven't, hadn't streamlined my process. I was still figuring out what was the most efficient way to do it as I referenced, and then you kind of get that thought in your mind.
[00:43:28] It was just like, this is a [00:43:30] lot of work. Like do I. Do I want to continue to do this? And you know, when, when you, when you like, have a passion for something, um, and it's something you think about constantly. Like you can't just, you can't let it go. It just stays with you. Like you have to see it through. And I, I, I asked myself a question.
[00:43:47] It was like, so I did it. I saw the amount of work it took. And now I'm having this all, do I really want to do this? So the thing that would stop me from doing this is just that I don't wanna put into [00:44:00] work now, I don't think I'd be able to live with myself if I was like, I didn't see my, I didn't see through what, 'cause sometimes when you, when you kind of get locked into your purpose, it was revealed to you.
[00:44:11] It's like a divine thing. So like this thing that I am was sitting here to do. It is not the only thing, but it's one of the things and I don't, and I don't wanna see it through because I don't wanna doing the work. Like, obviously you're like, okay, I, I'll do whatever I have to do, put in the hours to, to make it happen, and I'm in the same [00:44:30] boat.
[00:44:30] So I'm glad that you saw that. Okay, this is part of my purpose. Like this is one of the things that I'm meant to do. So you're willing to make all the sacrifices. I just want people to understand that, um, especially when you're independent, independently producing things and the way kind of things are shifting, especially in this industry is like, it's, is we, you can't just, oh, I have an idea.
[00:44:49] I'm gonna pitch it, and then somebody just gonna throw somebody. No, you have to have some proof, like you have to. You might have to make five before anybody comes to you is I, we want to give you some money. You know, for some people [00:45:00] it might take one or two. For some people it might take 10. You don't really know those things, but the only thing you can do is control what you can control and that's, um, the time you put in.
[00:45:08] So I appreciate you doing that and, and seeing it through 'cause uh, it has inspired me because I'm on that route and I'm sure it'll inspire other people too. Um, so yeah, I, I, I really do appreciate everything you have put into this, but I just wanted to say that before we kind of transition into the last segment of the show, just, just [00:45:30] some general questions surround in, in the audio realm, um, to get a kinda idea of your taste.
[00:45:36] Uh, so the first question I have is, uh, what's, what is your favorite album of all time?
[00:45:42] Yhane: Oh, okay. Thank you. I wrote that down. Stevie Wonder songs in The Key of Life.
[00:45:47] Sidney: How, how, how old you were you, or do you remember the first time you heard it or the, the circumstances surrounded? The first time you heard it?
[00:45:55] Yhane: I don't remember. Okay. I was born in 1969, so I'm presently [00:46:00] 55 years old, thank God. And um, my brother. My older brother had a record player, like I did not have a record player, but he always had a stereo and he was the person who bought records. 'cause back in the day, growing up in the seventies and eighties, you only listen to radio or records.
[00:46:22] That was it. Like nowadays, Spotify, like, you know, looking up lyrics and anyway, so I would've like, that didn't exist. [00:46:30] So, um, I remember being a child. I listening to this record, but. Nowadays as an adult, I realize what it was, what it was. I'm like, oh, that was Stevie Wonder in the name of the album. I didn't know that then because I was a child, like I, I, I, I, I would see the album, but I never made the connection.
[00:46:52] Like this song was on this album. But thank goodness, thank goodness for Spotify, um, I was able to [00:47:00] learn like, oh, this song was on this album, Innervisions, the, these songs were on that album. Talking book, I learned, like that's how I learned what these things are and I can tell you otherwise, I, if, if I didn't have Spotify, I would've just said, um, the song, uh, eight times eight is 84, whatever, you know, sometimes that's
[00:47:22] Sidney: when you trying to find a discover.
[00:47:23] So you just gotta type in like a line or two. And hopefully Google does this thing and you'll figure it out. But that's the great thing about [00:47:30] music, like it is this forever. So you can always go back and revisit it and figure it out and appreciate it in a different way or learn something new that you didn't know before.
[00:47:37] So, uh, that's cool. Okay. Uh, favorite music producer.
[00:47:42] Yhane: So I didn't know what a music producer, what is a music producer?
[00:47:46] Sidney: So, so like the people, um, generally who like create the music. I mean, it, it is, it's a. It is a broad term. Now, sometimes the people who just like make the track could be the producer, sometimes [00:48:00] the producer for like example, like Quincy Jones, like, um, because Thriller is the most successful album ev ever.
[00:48:06] Like they had a, obviously they had like a lot of musicians and other people like actually played the instruments and, um, at, you know, play or do the elements. But I guess, yeah, the person who generally just like gives like the musical direction.
[00:48:22] Yhane: Oh, okay. So I, you already said my person Vincent Jones. I
[00:48:29] Sidney: had not a feeling, that's why I went ahead and [00:48:30] said it.
[00:48:30] Yeah.
[00:48:31] Yhane: Yes. You're a mind reader because, only because I just saw his documentary on, uh, Netflix, I think. And, um, it just so happens that, okay, the album that Count Bassy did with Frank Sinatra. Was like, is like one of my favorite albums. Um, and he, I believed, arranged that or produced that. [00:49:00] So yeah, Quincy Jones.
[00:49:03] Sidney: Okay. Yeah, that's, that's, uh, and rest in peace of Christian Jones, man. Just passed recently, as I'm sure you all know. Um, okay. Favorite, uh, film score or soundtrack? Okay.
[00:49:16] Yhane: That is another Quincy Jones thing. The Wiz.
[00:49:18] Sidney: The Wiz. Oh, I thought you were gonna say Sanford and Son. Well, that's for the next one. That next question, next question.
[00:49:23] Don't, but you can't, but you can't say that one because the next one is the TV question, so you have to pick another one. [00:49:30] Um, but The Wiz, yeah. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. Um, you, you're keeping things consistent here. Okay. Uh, so favorite TV theme song?
[00:49:38] Yhane: So initially I wrote down The Facts of Life.
[00:49:41] Sidney: Mm. New one.
[00:49:43] That's a new one.
[00:49:44] Yhane: Yeah. Yeah. And I think I'm gonna, then I had another idea, but I forgot what it was. But yeah, I'm gonna stick with the facts of life.
[00:49:53] Sidney: That's very, very catchy. Very, very jingly. Um. And I forgot about that one, but I used to watch a lot of Nick at night [00:50:00] as a kid, and I was able to watch the shows that were out before I was even born.
[00:50:03] So, um, I know exactly what you're talking about. We had another guest who said the, uh, taxi theme song, which actually has no lyrics. It's just music. But, um, I went back and listened to it and I, I, I understood where he was coming from, the perspective. So,
[00:50:16] Yhane: oh my goodness, like, so. I didn't have Nick at night because that was, I was too old for that.
[00:50:22] So I'm impressed that when people say Nick at night, I am like, oh, okay. That's 'cause you were born in nineteen ninety,
[00:50:28] Sidney: eighty nine, but [00:50:30] you're close.
[00:50:31] Yhane: Okay. Yeah. Like we had the real shows, uh, that came on, like the original taxi came on, like NBC eight o'clock eight, whatever. But that theme song, the, the taxi going over the bridge mm-hmm.
[00:50:45] Is why I wanted to move to New York. Ah.
[00:50:48] Sidney: I guess, and at that time like that was like the. Yeah, that, that, that shot or those shots is like, it, it kind of like encapsulates all that, you [00:51:00] know, like New York, you know, was or, or is at that time. So that, so that definitely makes sense. Um, well, yeah, I appreciate you, uh, like I said, coming on and, and sharing your experiences and even getting as, as deep as telling us what your budget was for the first, um.
[00:51:17] So I appreciate the transparency on that and I took a lot of it out, out of it. Uh, I took a lot out of it and I hope our listeners did as well. Um, can you just share before we, uh, wrap up, like, uh, how [00:51:30] people connect with you, uh, listen to your stuff and support what you got going on.
[00:51:35] Yhane: Yes, thank you. So you can listen to Harlem Queen 1972 and the courtship of Mona Mae on Apple and Spotify.
[00:51:44] And I always say wherever you get your podcasts, um, I am trying to wean myself off of the socials, but so I have a newsletter on Substack Harlem Queen Dot. [00:52:00] Substack, I believe I'm on Substack Harlem Queen, but, um, I'm also, still, I do, I am still on, uh, Instagram, and my Instagram is yani, Y-H-A-N-E dot w writes, WITE s.audio, uh, A-U-D-I-O.
[00:52:19] So you can reach me there, and I'm on LinkedIn as Yani Washington Smith.
[00:52:24] Sidney: Yes, LinkedIn is the, is the great connector. I, I, I've strayed away from like the other [00:52:30] socials, but LinkedIn is, has definitely been a staple, uh. It's like the progression of this podcast. So I could just, yeah. Where I just find people and reach out to 'em and they're more responsible, more responsive, because it is, if I'm, I'm reaching to 'em out there, I'm serious about something.
[00:52:44] I'm not just, you know, um, so yeah, appreciate you sharing that. Um, of course. And, and, and once again, just thank you for coming on. I appreciate you taking the time out of your, uh, of course. And this is a, I guess this is a national holiday, so you could have been, you know, out and about [00:53:00] catching the ambiance of what's whatever's going on in New York right now.
[00:53:03] But, um, I appreciate taking the time out and for everybody listening, I hope you enjoy today's episode and we will catch you on the next one.
[00:53:14] Thank you for joining us on today's episode. Please don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. If you'd like to work with me or connect, please go to sound by sit.com and schedule a call there. You can also check out the full [00:53:30] list of productions I've worked on. If you'd like to connect on social media.
[00:53:34] My handle is sound by said.com on Twitter and Instagram. And I'm Sydney Evans on LinkedIn. Don't forget. To follow beyond the threshold on Instagram as well. I'll catch you on the next episode.